Zoom H2 Digital Recorder Details

Sandy: Thanks for the smile. "Noise floor" is audio jargon for the background noise in the circuitry. In other words, the noise level can never go lower than the floor. You're correct that recorders can pick up noise from vibrations, though, so placing the recorder on soft foam could help. That type of acoustic damping is typically called a shockmount. One reader here built a clever shockmount for his H2 out of metal bars and rubber bands.

I am considering purchase an H2 - reading thru discussion here. A thought about floor noise - would sitting the tripod on top of a foam block absorb the vibrations? Maybe like Swedish foam?

I've been reading through a lot of good info here. The problem is, I don't understand a lot of it. What I'd like to do is record myself playing flute. A small mic wrapped/velcro'ed around the head of the flute is usually a good way to do this. Can someone recommend a small lav type mic and appropriate cable(s) to get my music into the H2?

Thanks

I am trying very hard to record piano on an H2 and can't get a good sound. Regardless of settings (I think I've tried everything except AGC) my recordings sound fuzzy, especially in one speaker. The fuzziness isn't constant - seems to come in during loud parts but also sometimes during less loud parts.

They don't sound fuzzy when listening through headphones, but on every device with external speakers (computer, good stereo, boombox) the recordings sound fuzzy, at least in some places.

I wondered if it could be the CDs I'm recording on, but no, even when I played to my computer's external speakers direct from the H2, it sounds fuzzy.

My recording levels always are always within safe levels, I've tried different mike gains, I've tried alternating between front and rear mikes, etc.

I returned my first H2 after tech support said my problem sounds like I have a faulty unit. The second unit did the same. Returned again, and 3rd unit does the same. I used 2 different SD cards and reformatted them as well.

I wondered if my recording setup was bad, because I'd be in a small practice room with a grand piano -- so the sound was very loud. But I used low mike gain with recording levels set low, so there was never any spiking or anything. In fact for some of these recordings, I'd have to turn my stereo way up to hear well, and it was still fuzzy. I tried mid mike gain and played back at low volume on my stereo, and still sounds fuzzy.

What else could it be? I'm ready to give up on the H2. After trying 3 different units, it's either the H2 can't handle what I'm trying to do, or I'm doing something wrong.

[I] had a hard time converting the files to iTunes at a decent sound level. Is there an easy way to fix this?

Try making future recordings at a higher level (try the Medium or High setting). To amplify your current recordings, get an audio editor like Audacity (free) and apply the Normalize function. That boosts all audio in the file until the highest peak is at the maximum level.

I have had the H2 for a while now, but I have had a hard time converting the files to itunes at a decent sound level. Is there an easy way to fix this? My brother helped me last time, but he's computer smart and I am not.

I want to thank you for your information regarding upgrading my SD card.. Everything seems to be working better and I usually record using a higher wave.. like around 44.1 KHz with 16 bit..

Anyway, I have another question that would be appreciated if you could help.

I usually record my band through a 16 multitrack recorder.. With headphones.. so only the drums can be heard from the outside. All other instruments get recorded direct into the Zoom through this manner. However, I always seem to get a very distorted recording..especially bass volumes.

What is the proper levels for a recording in this manner ? I've tried AGC and comp on the general settings and limiter settings on studio mode though I'm not sure if I fully tested the unit on all the choices for proper levels. The instructions state to set the levels so its just below 0 Db.. but that setting is all the way to the right on the face of the unit which makes it appear as though it is very high.... the levels can be set between 0 and 127 being the highest. Should I try to set the level at like around 85, ? ? thank you for your time

@Rob: We ... have been experiencing some digital skips during some recorded tracks.

That could be due to a slow or faulty memory card. Have you tried other cards?

My friend and I just picked up one of these ZOOM H2 units. We love it but have been experiencing some digital skips during some recorded tracks. We are pretty sure it wasn't the result of transferring files but from the source. Has anyone else experienced digital skips ? Any suggestions ? The tracks were recoded in mp3 mode at 128 kbs ...

Can anybody tell me if the H2 automatic recording feature does indeed behave in a one shot manner? Or does it work like a normal VOR feature in most voice recorders where recording will turn on and off according to noise level.

Steve

You can hear examples of the Zoom H2 in action at my podcast, with notations of what modes I used at:

http://www.midnightrunner.mypodcast.com

Also, I will confirm that the mic inputs are indeed too noisy for use. That was a major disappointment. Build quality is also very light and cheap -- especially the hooks on the battery door.

If you are wavering between the H2 and the H4, then go with the H4 due to it's XLR mic inputs. I wish I had, although the H2 is a decent value. The H4 is a far better solution for podcasting, due to the ability to hook up mics. Also, the front/rear 90 degree and 120 degree mics make interviewing people a bit of a pain because of the difference in gain and bass output between the front and back of the unit. You can get quite different sounding audio depending on which side of the mic a person happens to be talking into (whether you're in mono or not). I find I get the best "interview" results if I hold the unit in the palm of my hand and point the side (front face 90 degree mic side) toward people's mouth. The front 90 degree mic setting sounds best.

De nada. Of my questions, only the ripping from vinyl question remains. I've tried line in from my Denon amp (hifi setup) and even at Low volume (L of LMH gain options) it was nearly too much, so I'll have to correct that.

Question : how do I choose the kbps ?

@Uzine: Thanks for tracking down the info on memory cards.

Regarding using the H2 as an external audio interface: I don’t know if your Mac is one of the models without analog audio inputs, but I was surprised to discover that the built-in inputs on my G5 tower had better quality and lower latency than a $150 USB audio interface I’d bought.

One cool thing you can do with the H2 on a Mac, though, is aggregate its outputs with the Mac’s built-in ones, giving you true four-channel output for monitoring your surround-sound recordings. (You’ll need four speakers as well, of course.) See my article “Build a Mondo Audio Interface — for Free.”

Just got this from Zoom Corp :

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: ZOOM info
Date: 2008/7/28
Subject: RE: WHAT ABOUT OTHER SD CARDS FOR ZOOM H2

Dear Sir,

Thank you for your inquiry.

Even though we haven't confirmed the actual performance on the H2, all SDHC cards are compatible
theoretically.
So far, we haven't found any problem with all SDHC cards.

Anyway, we will forward your feedback to the H2 development team for future reference.

Sincerely yours,
ZOOM Corporation.

Zoom seems to be lazy updating their info on compatible SD cards. On 2090.org (click my URL) I read about SDSDRH 004G A11 being compatible with Zoom HD. However, in the shop, the sell SDSDRH 004G E11 (Belgium). Sandisk doesn't list Zoom / Samson in its list of companies to detect compatibility.

So is it compatible yes or no, please ?

http://www.sandisk.com/Products/ProductInfo.aspx?ID=2201

First of all congrats all at O'Reilly. Big up from Belgium !!

I'm worried by Leonardo's remark that "external MIC/LINE input has some serious internal noise and way too low signal -2.0 dBu LINE clipping level shortcomings needing user consideration".

Other comments weren't encouraging either, and Shaggy's & Trevor's were unclear (too technical + I'm not a native English speaker). Barry S & Ozpeter's were more comforting but technical too.

Some people even recommended using the headphone out ... surely that creates loss ?

What are the experiences please ?

Reason for my questions : my purpose is to use the H2 for voice interviews whilst driving ... but also to use it as an interface between my hifi amp and my iBook (slow usb apparently) so as to be able to load music tracks FROM VINYL into Peak / Audacity when I edit my radio show.

Can I use the Zoom as a direct gobetween or does it have to record first after which I can load into my Mac ? Can I rip vinyl at 320 kbps or will the 2GB file limit be a nuisance ?

Also, is the H2 doomed to be full speed usb instead of hi speed usb, or can that be changed by new firmware ? By an upgrade in the model ? Is Zoom considering a totally new model ?

Another thing : what about pause, fast forward or rewind ? I think DXACE1 is right.

Finally, the firmware download page seems to be Windows only ? What about Mac (OS 10.4) ?

Oh and Tim, what exactly is "the mic adaptor handle" ? Can you please explain it to a foreigner ? Which picture is it on http://www.zoom.co.jp/english/products/h2/ ?

All in all, a lot of what is discussed here can be avoided by better interfaces and beter manuals. In general, Zoom's engineers look too much like engineers to me, who don't know what people DO with their gear. ALL THESE DEVICES ARE WAY TOO TECHNICAL. Engineers and reviewers should think in the "plug & play" intuitive interface spirit of Mac. And read Plain English dot CO dot UK ;-)

BEWARE -- Well, the H2 arrived Friday. The mic adaptor handle FELL APART after 2 hours. I couldn't believe how badly designed it is, unless of course it was carefully designed TO fall apart. The work and care for the rest of the H2 is really beautiful. It's easy to fall in love with this thing, more than any other gadget I have. So that's why I'm here. Please fix the mic handle, or risk the loss of your H2 as it falls clean off the stem of the handle to the ground.
I drilled 2 holes in the disk where the male thread is embedded, and another 2 under the bottom of the narrow end. Then put 2 cable ties from top to bottom. Another 2 cable ties were sacrificed for there ratchet heads, to zip onto the bottoms of the cable ties that are already running through the length of the handle. ps. The holes should just be big enough so the ties will fit.

Hello,
great place here.
i'm considering buying de H2, i'm just afraid to be disappointed by the sound quality. i know it's relative and difficult to discuss but for comparison i'm usually recording a bit of everything, mostly acoustic instruments such guitar banjo and voice... with a Rode NT4 plugged into an old M-Audio USB DUO soundcard.
the NT4 is not an excellent mic but it's enough for me and i recorded several albums with just the cheap NT4.

does anyone know if there will be a huge difference of quality between the H2 and the Rode NT4 ?

also, what about the latency of the H2 when used as a soundcard (i use Logic and Ableton Live on Mac)??

thanks for any help and advice :)
stéphane

The article Mark L cites is “How to get the best from the Zoom H2,” written by OzPeter, who’s left many helpful comments on this page as well.

Metal Man said:

I just got the Zoom H2 and want to use it to record my friends in a very loud local band.

Zoom has good advice at Zoom Gear & Home recording " how to get the best from the zoom H2.

And for attaching to body I found a belt clip camera case that the H2 slides right into. I just cut off the rubber strap. I saw a belt case on ebay as well. You could try a digital camera bag and alter it if necessary. They are cheap at local mega chain store.
Mark L

I did purchase an H2 and did bench testing same as was done in the H4 partial review mentioned. Found H2 somewhat improved in performance, and especially useful if solely using the H2's internal microphones.

However, for external MIC/LINE input, the H2 has some serious internal noise and way too low signal -2.0 dBu LINE clipping level shortcomings needing user consideration.

While not motivated to do a full technical H2 review, initial findings with noise graphs posted on newsgroup threads can be found linked on my tips page in the deck models info section at www.sonicstudios.com/tips.htm

Hi all,

I did a direct recording from a mixer and imported it into cubase, the audio spectrum in cubase seems to be compressed. The compressor i checked has been switched off. Anyone has similar results?

I just got the Zoom H2 and want to use it to record my friends in a very loud local band.

Can someone please give me some advice on the settings I should use to record very loud live music.

Also, does anyone have a creative method of attaching the Zoom H2 to their body so I don't have to hold the recorder during the show.

I know I could put it in a mic stand but don't want to turn away for a minute and have someone walk off with the recorder. The H2 is so small and very easy for someone to put it in their pocket and walk away.

Thanks

I got the H2 about a month ago with the intent of doing some random recording. The most important will be getting a set of "interviews" with my 79 year old father, recording for grandchildren and the family as a whole his great stories in his own voice.

That said, it did arrive in plenty of time to take to South By Southwest last week. I wound up recording 11 shows over three separate nights. The first show wasn't that loud so I wasn't too worried, but it seemed that each got progressively louder and in smaller and smaller venues.

Each time, set at the low setting and the "gain" at 100, 44.1k sampling and 16 bit WAV, it worked like a charm. I'd start it up, stick it in my short pocket and not think about it till the show was over. I was most impressed that at no time did it saturate either the A/D converter or the microphones.

The two last shows I got were in a small venue with very loud rock bands playing. I had earplugs and it was still loud. I was certain the recordings would be toast, but was pleased to see these were, for all intents and purposes, perfect levels.

The recordings do need post-processing (adjusting equalization, normalizing the two channels and amplifying to appropriate levels), but everything worked like a charm. In short, if you are unsure of the abilities of the H2 to handle loud source sound, you shouldn't be.

@AG:

It has "COMP 3 (DRUMS)" setting.

Other readers report (see OzPeter's posts here especially) that the compressor is more of an effect than a recording tool, because it operates on the signal after it has been digitized. Try recording with the M or L settings and the input at 100 for optimal quality.

Hello..basically I'm looking to get either the h2 or h4, I'd want it for two reasons:

1. To record band rehearsals/gigs (from what I gather the h2 would be best).

2. To record vocals to put over previously recorded music. From what I understand the h4 is suited to this being a multi track recorder, but I wanted to know if you can play things back and listen to them while recording through the h2 as I am leaning towards this model.

Alternatively if it would be possible to hook up the h2 to pro tools and record directly onto pt tracks using the h2 as an interface..either way would be fine.

I have looked around and I can't seem to find the answers..

Joe

Thanks David,
I've downloaded the H2 manual and found a page that shows using the AGC/compressor/limiter function settings. It has "COMP 3 (DRUMS)" setting. I think I'll end up getting one and hope it would work.
Thanks

@Simon:

I'm going to Tokyo on March 20 and planning to buy an H2 while I'm there. Does anyone have any tips on where best to look?

Several of the other major stops on the Yamanote line, which circles Tokyo, have become "mini Akihabaras." Yodobashi Camera in Shinjuku and Kichijoji is a multi-story tech heaven. I've also been to big music stores in Nakano and Shibuya. I'll ask around and report back.

UPDATE, 2008-03-05: My gadget-enthusiast friend Tomoaki said Yodobashi Camera is the best place for a tourist to pick up an H2. He also pointed me to a site called Kakaku.com that lists prices for the H2 at online Japanese stores. Interestingly, the best price today (20,582 yen) equates to $199 in USD, about the same the H2 costs in America.

Hi, I'm going to Tokyo on March 20 and planning to buy an H2 while I'm there (should be cheaper than in Australia, where I live). Does anyone have any tips on where best to look? I know Akihabara is the big electronics district, but none of the Akiba individual shop websites seem to gave the H2 listed among their products. Any suggestions gratefully received

Thanks
Simon

@AG:

Would the H2 be a good choice to record my drum set?

Searching this page for "drum" (press Control-F or Command-F in your browser) turns up several examples of people happily recording drums with the H2. I also noticed a recent ad with Peter Erskine saying he uses an H2 to record his drum classes. I think of him as a crisp jazz drummer rather than a skin smasher, though.

Would the H2 be a good choice to record my drum set? I never record my practice sessions and would like to do so. I need a device that can handle the sound range such as drums, any advice is welcome.
Thanks!
AG

@John:

We've reviewed seven other portable recorders so far, and have four more on the way. See our forum page for links.

Does anyone here have any comments on how the H2 (or H4) compares to any of these more expensive recorders:

- Sony PCM-D50
- Olympus LS-10
- Marantz PMD-620
- Edirol R-09
- Yamaha Pocketrak 2G
- M-Audio MicroTrack II
- TASCAM DR-1

Interested in primarily sound quality but also interface elegance/ease of use.

Thanks,

John

Hi

I am considering the Zoom H2 recorder. I am a serious amateur singer and I use the cheap and simple Olympus Digital Voice recorder (cost about $40). I like it because it has a built in speaker and it records farily well. Below are samples of me singing using the recorder. The first was in a church with the recorder about 15 feet away. The second in a small restaurant about 8 ft away. I cleaned both of them up using CakewalkPyro (declick feature)

http://www.hazardsolutions.com/UnaFurtivaLagrima.mp3

http://www.hazardsolutions.com/WhenSunnyGetsBlue.mp3

So the question I have for you if whether people think that the Zoom H2 is substantially better quality recorder (and better suited for recording me singing) than the cheap one I am using. I would like high quality recordings of my singing to share.
Thanks!
Art

Hi

I am considering the Zoom H2 recorder. I am a serious amateur singer and I use the cheap and simple Olympus Digital Voice recorder (cost about $40). I like it because it has a built in speaker and it records farily well. Below are samples of me singing using the recorder. The first was in a church with the recorder about 15 feet away. The second in a small restaurant about 8 ft away. I cleaned both of them up using CakewalkPyro (declick feature)

http://www.hazardsolutions.com/UnaFurtivaLagrima.mp3

http://www.hazardsolutions.com/WhenSunnyGetsBlue.mp3

So the question I have for you if whether people think that the Zoom H2 is substantially better quality recorder (and better suited for recording me singing) than the cheap one I am using. I would like high quality recordings of my singing to share.
Thanks!
Art

Please ignore previous comment - have worked it out!

It's the difference between pressing the button (which takes you back to the beginning of the track) and holding it down, which does the 1 or 5 second jump thing. And it's much faster in WAV than MP3.

Hi there

More on rw/ff in playback.

I'm using my H2 for journalistic stuff, and checked on here about rw/ff before buying - and most of you seem to be able to do it!

I've tried recording in WAV and mp3 mode - just very short test recordings - and mine just automatically jumps back to the beginning of each track, rather than doing the 1 or 5 sec jumping thing, which people reported - & which is pretty essential for my work!

My H2 has firmware version 1.10

Am I doing something wrong? Is there a trick I'm missing?

Thanks in advance for any advice!

I just got the recorder a few days ago, and have been using it a lot ever since. Seems extremely (maybe too) convenient to be able to go record anything you so desire anywhere you may happen to be!

I'm extremely impressed about the sound quality. I have another reasonably expensive condenser mic plugged up to my computer for acoustic and vocal recording (not very convenient and not the least bit portable), and after a little messing around my acoustic/vocal demos on the H2 already sound better quality, and I've been messing around tryin' to perfect things with my other condenser for ages!

I'm not going to extreme professional quality with my acoustic demos, just good solid sound quality, and the H2 provides to an extent that is borderline professional anyways. I'd almost say that a bit of work this recorder could be all you need to record something releasable!

My main disappointment with it is the lack of a rudimentary multi-track in the device for overdubbing and layering, which I think would have been easy (if not, possible) to implement.

One solution for me has been to put what I've just recorded onto my ipod, put on headphones and listen back to it, and as I am doing so record to the H2, a new solo, vocal, drum, whatever...you could construct a whole track this way. Afterwards I'd put it all together in Cubase SX and toy around with it. Just a slight annoyance though.

The four track recording worked very nicely in a flat jam. Like the best products the H2 is basically as powerful as you are willing to make it. I think if you put in the work the results will come through. Excellent device. I don't know about that limited frequency range thing mentioned, gotta read up on it more.

9.5/10, highly recommended.

Yes, auto record is a "one shot" thing - at present. A recent firmware upgrade for the Zoom H4 provided for auto-record to be "multi-shot", if I recall correctly, and hopefully this facility may find its way to the H2 in due course.

Sadly, I to have concluded that the auto record doesn't return to record standby after it records something. I tried all last night to figure it out. In the end you have to push the red button again to arm the auto record! Didn't those old cassette dictation devices do this? What gives?

THANK YOU to Mark Nelson and the people at O'reilly for the awesome review and service!

Thanks for the note! This is my favorite type of comment to get -- someone discovers something on the site, gets inspired to go deeper, and then shares his or her findings with the rest of us.

I bought my H2 last night and spent all day with it…amazing sound quality!!! Not being being so technically savvy and generally finding manuals a drag it was a bit of a slog…there are several videos on YouTube which help you get going. Once I got plugged in I was blown away. I had tuned my guitar and when I played the first chord I just about fell over: I could hear every string, full deep bottom, rich mids and bright highs, including the one string which was not properly tuned. I was rather disappointed to figure out that the “2-Tracks” don’t seem splitable to allow for any overdubbing; I guess they’re just there for getting all four channels going, still, there’s always Garage Band for other tracks …speaking of which, this unit works great as USB mike/interface. Once you get used to it the interface is pretty easy to use...after 4-5 hours of figuring things out (still have a way to go with the filing system and various features) I was having the time of my life…guess I better remember that I also bought this for research interviews!
The only other thing to mention is a great big THANK YOU to Mark Nelson and the people at O'reilly for the awesome review and service! All the best in 2008!
David Lertzman, University of Calgary

Hi everyone. We just got the new Sony PCM-D50 handheld recorder in for review, and we'd love to get your thoughts; they really helped shape our H2 review.

The D50 is a much more affordable version of Sony's flagship D1. You can read more details and leave comments here.

Thanks!

Thanks Greenmachine,

However, the statement in the document you cite is actually wrong. The soundscape is recorded CORRECTLY with the REAR mics (those with an included angle of 120 degrees),
NOT with the FRONT mics. (The terms front and rear are defined on page 5 of the Operation Manual.) Here is the sentence in question:

"L/R Posi
If you don't have that option you need to download and install the latest firmware from http://www.zoom.co.jp/english/download/software/h2.php - basically it allows you to set the left/right soundscape correctly when you record with the rear mics facing the performers."

====================

Doug, this well written guide explains why the digital level control shouldn't be used ("always use 100"). Basically you'll just decrease the dynamic range in one way or another if you use any other setting. Same goes for the "H" setting.

http://www.2090.org/zoom/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=9745

If you upgrade to at least the 1.10 firmware, there's a menu option to choose whether to record from the player's (default) or listener's perspective. This basically swaps the channels.

greenmachine | November 16, 2007 02:19 AM

Yeah, I've left a comment too. I don't get the bit about needing to record only louder sounds with the internal mics (recording a barely audible ticking clock in a quiet room works very well, for heaven's sake!), and the line input is demonstrably free of significant distortion if levels are kept below full scale.

I left some comments in that Transom article to catch them up on how to use the line input effectively. For hose who read the zoom forum, none of it should be news to you.

I did it to make sure that this device is appreciated for what it can do. The more it sells, the more zoom will want to offer firmware upgrades I assume.

Thanks Ozpeter. Since you been doing a real great job at this forum, I'll take yout word for it.

I Had the same feeling... odd really :( I've read some well done pieces on Transom.

I just saw a review of the zoom H2 and I feel it shows some real ignorance. Here's the link: http://www.transom.org/tools/recording_interviewing/200711_zoom_h2/
I have used external preamps and a limiter with great success. I too have wave files to show you. Mine don't peak out. Obviously the writer of that article is doing something wrong.

Don't believe everything you read on the net - especially when it's posted by someone trying to sell something. Several of those specs are meaningless and some downright wrong. My H2 makes ultrasonic recordings very happily in 24/96 - I have an ultrasonic rat deterrent device which goes way above 40kHz and the H2 records it quite happily up to the Nyquist cutoff point. Or just jangle some keys, which is an even simpler way of generating ultrasonic frequencies. (I can't hear the recording but frequency analysis in Audition shows them plainly).

Is it true that the frequency range of h2 is just 50-12khz??? I got the figure from a comparison chart of it with another recorder at

www.djdeals.com/dynasonicPDR1.htm

I hope it's not correct but if so, that's a big letdown. 12khz limit at the top end is somewhat inadequate for any serious recording for me, I'd prefer at least 15khz. That means what I suspected was right after all - I noted on my Sept 13 post that I noticed the h2 clipped at a slightly lower frequency level at the high end compared to h4 on one of the mp3 samples linked here earlier. Can anyone confirm this?

Aside from what Kevin wrote, I assume you're plugging into line in, right? NOT the mic input!

Check the overview and lower the CD output
http://www.2090.org/zoom/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=9745

I just got my H2. Everything works fine exept that my device cannot record directly from a - normal - cdplayer on the line input without serious clipping. I use record level 100, no limiter. The vu meter is at its maximum. When i lower the signal to 20-30 the vu metre is in the safe area but the clipping just goed on.

I know some cdplayers have a high output signal but the amplyfier i use has no problem at all with this cdplayer.

The clipping is so severe i cannot use the recordings. Is this normal?

On the FF/RR issue discussed a while back, I have
sent a message to Zoom informing them that this is
clearly more pronounced when trying to fast forward
or rewind on mp3, than with .wav files....

I got my H2 yesterday. Has anybody else noticed a sort of fluttering sound appearing with the mic gain in the L position and phones volume over 80?

You are right, that is one creepy hand. Looks like a dude's hand with a french manicure.....

Doug, this well written guide explains why the digital level control shouldn't be used ("always use 100"). Basically you'll just decrease the dynamic range in one way or another if you use any other setting. Same goes for the "H" setting.

http://www.2090.org/zoom/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=9745

If you upgrade to at least the 1.10 firmware, there's a menu option to choose whether to record from the player's (default) or listener's perspective. This basically swaps the channels.

After setting the main level control (H/M/L) it is possible to make fine adjustments with the buttons. They bring up a scale which goes from zero to 127. Nowhere in the manual is there any statement of what this scale represents in terms of decibels. I can tell by watching the meters just how much I would like to raise or lower the level, so it would be very helpful to know how to do that on the zero to 127 scale, for example, how many numbers on that scale represent exactly six dB? Knowing this would avoid trial and error adjustments during a session! Also, for those using the 90-degree mics only, note that all of your recordings will be mirror-image, and have to be channel swapped in the computer! It might be good if the manual made mention of this.

I don't remember where, probably on the zoom forum here:
http://www.2090.org/zoom/bbs/viewforum.php?f=15
Someone discussed the issue of how to avoid losing all your settings very time you format the card. There's a location on the card where all your settings are stored (maybe it's one of the folders in its entirety?). Just copy that and save it somewhere on your computer. That way you can reformat the card for use with other devices like your camera, and before using in the H2, take the card and overwrite it with what you saved. It will take a minute to do that, but not only will startup be quicker, you'll also have the settings you last used.

Agnes, the settings you mention are for recording, not playback - have you got the playback level up? Is there a file to be played showing on the display? When you press play, does the playback time counter run and do the meters more?

I hope one of you can help. I just got my new Zoom H2, but the playback mode won't work, even with the MIC GAIN set to high and recording sensitivity way up as well. Thanks!
Agnes

Shaggy,

I think I may have found at least some explanation. At first I'd formatted the SD card (2GB 150x) in my laptop as FAT32. The H2 seemed to have no problem with that but I was getting 25-30 secs startup time. I then tried formatting it in the H2, and noticed it formatted it as FAT (not FAT32). Since then I'm getting a startup time of 6 secs - with the same card.
The most annoying thing for me is the way the settings are stored on the card, and you lose them every time you reformat (unless you manually backup the SYS folder and then restore afterwards). I mean, really... that is just so impractical.
Regards, Ben

My start-up is only a few seconds @ most with the 1GB Card providing I am recording in WAV. Not shure if it is best to
just delete the files after computer transfer or to re-format

Ben,

I too have notice various times for start-up and track writing before one can start recording a new track...

If a new card is used then a little time is required for
the unit to format and build-up the folder directories.

I know that MP3's take longer to write than WAV's

The time may also increase as the card fills up, and
perhaps file fragmentation may play a part as well

I have not yet tried larger / faster cards ( I only have used the 256 & 1GB Slow Class 1 cards ) and also curious
as to what performance can be expected with the larger cards

How long is yours taking to start up? I’m using a 2GB 150x SD card and it’s taking 25 to 30 seconds! This with firmware 1.20. Very annoying... Regards, Ben

here's a great idea. Build on these and then attach the mic stick at the bottom.

http://www.2090.org/zoom/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=9931

The mic adapter/stick works for me. ate least after I modified it with a bushing to make it solidly fixed to the screw threads.

On a different tack. How does everybody deal with handling noise on the H2? Occasionally it is necessary ot follow the sound source without a plug in mic. Are there any good tips for reducing the sound of hands getting to the H2 mics?

Have you seen the preamps by Chris Church? He has a store on eBay. Also check the Sound Professionals website.

No US dist I could find but this is commercial :)

http://www.felmicamps.co.uk/products/fel3.5series.html

I hope to find the time to build & test some simple portable
low noise microphone preamp circuits I have googled as I have not yet found a small inexpensive commercial unit ...

http://www.redcircuits.com/Page49.htm

http://www.geocities.com/ferocious_1999/md/micpreamp2.html

http://www.epanorama.net/circuits/micamp.html

http://www.zen22142.zen.co.uk/Circuits/Audio/ecmmic.html

Ooo thank you Gershon

maybe this will help?

http://www.2090.org/zoom/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=9910&highlight=designed+preamp

Help! Does anyone have a schematic they can share for a PCB for making a really small, portable preamp so I can stick my Soundman OKM II mics in, to the H2 for recording really quiet sounds or occasions where I need to adjust the recording volume? Please post here or email me (leewong08@yahoo.com)

It would be much appreciated... Thank you!

It may be that few people can hear the difference between recordings made at 16/44.1 compared to 24/96, however, I suspect that 24/96 gives you much more latitude in editing, particularly in adjusting gain, adding effects, etc. As long as you're not anticipating the need to increase gain or add any effects or mix with other signals, then 16/44.1 may be the most efficient parameters. But if you're planning any significant editing, you may get better results with 24/96.

I just tried the H2 with a "USB Device Copier" which in theory avoids the need for a PC when transferring to a drive, but it doesn't work. Then again, I've yet to find anything the copier does actually work with!

Software update 1.20 just issued on the Zoom site. Improves USB connectivity with Mac

Martin,

No. You need a computer.

Hi all.

I have a lacie mobile hard drive with usb 2 connection.
Is it possible to do a storage of my H2's data straight to the hard drive by not using my laptop?

Thanx in advance

Days back I tried to post this link here and it didn't appear -

http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/9/22/1451533/Sampleone.mp3 was recorded on an H2 using its built in mics only in 4ch H100 16/44.1 - the recording was made with the H2 suspended above a 3500 sold-out concert hall, and is of one of the world's most famous choirs with organ. The recording has been post-produced in Reaper - I'm more interested in the sound after production rather than straight from the H2, as that's what my clients here. IMHO it's a pretty amazing result!

martind28lh - yes, Audacity or Wavosaur or any wave editor would be able to change levels of wave files. Personally I use Reaper. For speech recording, a great program for flattening out differences in levels is "Levelator", freeware which Google would find. It's got no settings, so even I get good results from it!

http://theaudiocritic.com/blog/index.php?op=ViewArticle&articleId=41&blogId=1 is one link. The actual article is copyright and can't be posted. But there's some more detail in a website at http://www.bostonaudiosociety.org/explanation.htm - and much discussion on 'audiophile' websites!

"There's a great deal of controversy about 44.1 vs 96 happening on the net right now! A reputable study has just shown that testing a large sample of listeners over an extended period, people of all kinds cannot tell the difference between 16/44.1 and 24/96."

That's a very good point, Ozpeter. Can you point to some of the websites? I'm curious about whether they are talking about specific recorders (such as the H2) or a more generalized situation.

I've gone on record stating that I've heard the dif between two audio file formats that were identical (in my Korg MR 1 review) as well as not being able to hear the dif between 48 and 96 files from other flash recorders and being able to discriminate same with high end gear... so much for consistency. ;-}

Though, to be sure, a fairly high percentage of people can't tell the difference between red and white wine in a blindfold test.

cheers,

Mark

Hi Simon,
good point, if I would say "recorded with Zoom H2", most bookers won't have an idea I'm afraid, so that's why we say on the website DAT. So I shared some information only for insiders with you guys ;-)
By the way it was in WAV 44.1 KHz mode.
kind regards
Manuel

@Manuel, so why do you tell on your site it is recorded with DAT tape?

Thanks Dosdan. I was worried that, as Kingston was not on the H2 list, there may have been a problem. I'll get two 1Gb cards now.

Hi all,
I have the Zoom H2 for several weeks now and it's great. We recorded a live-demo via the line-input directly from the sound board and the result is great. You could listen to some fragments on our website www.t-o-i.nl click on MEDIA and then DEMO.
Please sign our guestbook!
kind regards
Manuel

I've been using a Kingston 2GB SD card for the last 6 weeks with my H4 and had no problems, so I'd be surprised if it didn't work in a H2.

Thanks Ozpeter for your advice re using agc. Do you (or does anyone else) know if it is possible to increase the level of a wav file recording using Audacity once it's downloaded to the PC?

Has anyone used the Kingston SD cards in the H2? and, if so, did they work ok?

Just to clarify, I'm using two Superlux S241/U3 mics through 2 Studio Projects vtb-1 preamps. Not exactly super portable, but it's getting me some really nice results. Neat little portable rig. Beats bringing a laptop!

Adrian, I've been doing just that. Since I have an 8GB SDHC card, and a fast card reader, I don't see why not. (unless of course it's just a waste of space if it's useless) Anyone out there have any hard data on this?

As a rule I record at 24/44.1 and mix to 16/44.1. Regarding the Zoom H2 I gather that due to self-noise there's little to gain from 24 bit. at least when using the internal preamps. However, is 24 bit justified when using a good external pre into the H2 line input?

There's a great deal of controversy about 44.1 vs 96 happening on the net right now! A reputable study has just shown that testing a large sample of listeners over an extended period, people of all kinds cannot tell the difference between 16/44.1 and 24/96. And I certainly can't. However, it's been said that the chips in the H2 are optimised for 48kHz, so there might be some merit in trying that. Personally I don't plan to.

Ozpeter, U sound'n techie again, ..

what's your take on 44.1 / 48 vs 96kHz settings ?

http://www.tweakheadz.com/16_vs_24_bit_audio.htm
___________________________________________________________
Dep, For Wave Files I record in 24 Bit for better quality,
Med Gain @ 125 works well with minimal hiss

Shaggy | November 1, 2007 07:08 PM
____________________________________________________________

martind28lh - using any of the agc/compression settings on the H2 will seriously interfere with the natural dynamics of the music, and once applied to the recordings cannot be undone if you change your mind afterwards. Using M100 should cope with the dynamic range of un-amplified instruments. You can always alter levels and apply compression in your PC afterwards if you feel the need - and "undo" if the result is then not to your liking.

forcnolimit, connecting your H2 to your PC is described in the manual - when you follow the steps set out there, is there some particular part of the instructions you don't understand or does something seem to go wrong?

"Ozpeter: chill on the techie stuff. The h2 is very capable" - eh? I've never said that the H2 is other than very capable, and on the whole my advice to users is to leave the techie stuff alone and use it point-and-shoot for best results.

Thanks Ross for that useful info.

I have another general question. Does anyone have experience of using the H2 with the AGC1 (GENERAL) setting on? For normal recording of acoustic instruments would that be a good bet, rather than adjusting levels manually? Any real disadvantages in using it? For me, the simpler the better.
Cheers

ME, a VERY unsavvy newbie has 2 "roadblocks" with my h2 zoom:
1/cannot figure how to CATAGORIZE my recordings into specified folders
(I may actually figure this one out)
BUT -
2/cannot for the life of me figure how to download this information onto my laptop.
Help is GREATLY appreciated! // forcnolimit@yahoo.com

Ozpeter: chill on the techie stuff. The h2 is very capable

martind...

If you have any wish to post-process your music files then stick with recording in wav format. Mp3 files are compressed and have lost some of the quality you will wish to work with.

Record any music you wish to keep in wav format. Then massage the wav files with Audacity.

When you are ready to save your finished work I would probably save it as a stereo wav file if it's something you've worked hard on. Then archive it away in a nice safe place. Wav files will play on pretty much any cd player out there these days.

If you are putting a lot of files on a CD or MP3 player, then saving them in mp3 format makes since. The big benefit of mp3 is space. You can put hours of mp3 music files onto a single CD but only an hour or so of wav music files. But remember... mp3 files only play on mp3 players.

I hope this helps. I've ordered an H2 and anxiously await it's arrival... a gift for the gurg! Actually... a gift for my daughter who sings opera. The gal can blow the house apart with those lungs. We'll see how the H2 can handle THAT!

Ross

Hi. As a very new user of a Zoom H2 who is quite inexperienced in digital recording I am just looking for some basic advice, if anyone can help. My main use is for recording traditional music - fiddles, guitars, piano etc. All I really want to do is to record in good quality stereo and then adjust or tidy up the recording using Audacity to make private CDs etc. My main question is - should I record using the default WAV format (WAV44.1kHz/16bit)or should I use one of the MP3 settings and if so, which one?
Is it best to burn CDs using WAV files or MP3 files (using Nero)?
If you have any other hints on recording with the H2 and then using Audacity I would appreciate reading them.
Thanks

Having the gain at 125 is russian roulette - it does nothing that you can't do in post production ('cos it's just adding digital gain) and risks digital overload needlessly.

The 24 bit debate will continue but it's considerably beyond the capability of the H2 analog stage's noise performance, as far as I'm concerned.

Dep, For Wave Files I record in 24 Bit for better quality,
Med Gain @ 125 works well with minimal hiss

I just used H4 for an interview with M100 and 44KHz/16. There were 3 speakers and the H4 was about 1m (3') away from them on, situated on a coffee table. It sounded quite good for me with no hiss noticeable.

okay. my h2 will arrive tomorrow, and i'll almost instantly be using it for a radio interview of an old-timey luthier, so it will certainly include some music. i'm figuring that whatever i do, it's bound to be better than the cassette machines (or even the old uher reel-to-reel i have upstairs) we used to use. but i want to double check.

based on what i've read here, and all else being equal, 44.1 and 16-bit, digital gain at 100 (which is apparently neutral) and the medium click position on the real mic pot, no agc or limiter, will produce the best raw recording. am i right so far?

now. there was only a little discussion of the lo-cut filter; what i saw seemed to suggest that it's okay. has this proved true?

anything else?

thanks -- this has been a great discussion and i've learned much from it.

You can use rechargeables with the H2. There's a menu option which lets you choose between Ni-MH and Alkaline. Use high capacity Ni-MH rechargeables and an intelligent fast charger for best results.

hi all.
i would like to ask if it is possible to use rechargable batteries with the zoom H2?

thanx

@Keld: Cubase may be expecting an ASIO driver. You might try Asio4All. I’ve been using it with Ableton Live in Vista.

I have just got zoom H2 and so far its very good. I connect it to my laptop with Windows Vista and it work great as a sound card in my program Cakewalk Sonar.
But in my Cubase SX 2.2 I cant find my H2 sound Card in my VST connections. Whats wrong? Please help me

Keld

Thanks Ozpeter,

Ya, I meant the internal mics, though I have a $50 Audio Technica stereo mic, I have no plan of using them, probably does no better than the built-in ones anyway.

theguitarman, do you mean using external mics or the integrated mics? Most reports of using the external mics straight into the H2 have been disappointing, while most people have reported getting excellent low-noise results with the H2's built in mics, or its line input for that matter.

Can anyone tell me in terms of noise, which is better, the H4, the H2, or the Edirol R09? How about the sensitivity? I mean the total result of the internal mic sensitivity, preamp sensitivity (is there such a thing?), and the preamp gain, or simply stated, which one catches the weaker or quieter sounds better? This is important for me because I intend to make field recordings of nature, like the croaking of frogs.

We just published an article on transferring Zoom H2 surround recordings to DVDs. It draws from material in this discussion.

"Anyone know how to make the volumn bigger when play on computer?"

Normalize the file. I use Audacity for that. That should help a bit. You might try to compress within Audacity or any other program like that. Just save the original file as is in case you don't like how the compressed version sounds. Good luck with that!

Sounds like next time you need to record your source at the next level up !

Hi, just bought H2. I got one problem with it. It record music great and play using H2 sound great also (using the earphone).

But when I play it on computer using Realplayer, the sound so low even I turn the volumn to max.

Anyone know how to make the volumn bigger when play on computer?

Thanks
Jeff

"If will consider inappropriate - please, remove it!!! "

Well, hopefully they will.... relevance to the Zoom H2 is hard to discern! Sigh...

Whether you install the firmware update or not should have no effect at all on transferring recordings to a computer.

thanx. i was thinking of upgrading in order not to face any problems with transform etc,
i am going to be in a remote place where i wont have internet access for a long time and i am a little bit worrying..
you think i ll be totally fine with it?

The update seems to provide only the means to swap left and right when recording, as described in the the pdf which comes with the download. If you don't want that, don't upgrade. (There's a suggestion that the upgrade also improves wind/rewind funcionality but that's not officially documented).

Ah, yes thanks -- it's becoming clear that implementation of this function leaves much to be desired.

I hope Zoom is watching this thread!

forgot to add, I have version 1.1

damn...i forget to use a nick. The previous post is mine restating what I said in a post further down. Btw, that's in PLAY mode.

dxace1,
FF/RW DOES FUNCTION on my H2.

after holding FF/RW for 5 'one second' jumps it makes 'five second' jumps and after holding for 5 'five second' jumps more it makes 'ten second' jumps. clear as mud...but that's how it works. Yeah, it should be more efficient.

ozpeter,
your recording...very cool. (reaper kicks ass)

See http://www.2090.org/zoom/bbs/viewtopic.php?p=96859#96859 for a link to an H2-originated studio music recording.

There's a suggestion elsewhere that the version 1.1 firmware improves FF/RW function.

Would someone who believes that their
FF/RR actually FUNCTIONS in either mp3
or wave mode elaborate.

Even if it works after a few seconds
of a press, it should function more
efficiently than this, as it does when
you are in full STOP mode.

Thanks

LeadSinger,
forget external mics, you won't be disappointed with the H2 internal mics for recording band rehearsals. it's much more than adequate. plug it into whatever you have available.

Ozpeter, well said. (I struggle chronic impulse-gadgetitis.)

Leadsinger - if you were thinking of using the H2 with the existing external mic you use with the MD, I don't think you'd get any better result and possibly worse than you do now. If you use the H2's own mics, the comparison is then between the H2 mics and the current mic you use - the actual recorder will then be neutral in the comparison.

Apart from the sound, you've then got to compare convenience of operation etc, and that could come down to fine details of your 'workflow'.

To be confident on all fronts you'd probably have to try out a friend's one first!

I've been watching...reading carefully, drooling at first, now a bit cooled to the H2. For quartet rehearsal we often record a song and immediately listen for errors, balance, tweeking our sound, etc. Have been using minidisc with playback through a Sony boombox Aux input. It's very portable, but I'm always fine-tuning, so what do you think...the H2 with portable, powered (iPod) speakers? Would you need anything else?

My new H2 arrived yesterday. It's out of the same batch and lot # as the first one I had but has a serial of 017xxx and my first one had a serial of 024xxx so I'm thinking they must not serial them sequentially.

I checked the panning setting first and it was centered, the Player/Listener setting would cause the hot mic to switch from R to L on the display so it was the same mic that had the issue. The new one is right on where it should be with the same settings on my Sandisk UltraII 4Gig SDHC from Costco. I think it must have just been a bad mic or bad tuning on one side at the factory. Either was the new one is working great so far. No you get out and use it!

20000+ I've seen mentioned. Remember that the 3D panning setting can affect playback of all 4tr files, I think. If anyone else has a balance problem I'd check that setting first.

I'm waiting on a replacement unit to arrive since my first one had a problem where the Right mic was always hotter than the left for some reason. I was wondering what the serial numbers are up to so I can judge if I'm getting a new one.
Thanks

we're very happy with the H2. quick record and instant replay of our ideas. enjoy!

FF/RW kinda works like my posts...lol

actually, during playback in mp3 mode after holding FF/RW for 5 one second jumps it makes 5 sec jumps and after holding for 5 five second jumps more it makes 10 second jumps. clear as mud...

I don't use the .wav mode but it probably works the same.

actually, in mp3 mode after holding FF/RW for 5 one second jumps it makes 5 sec jumps and after holding for 5 five second jumps more it makes 10 second jumps. clear as mud...

I don't use the .wav mode but it probably works the same.

On mine, in mp3 mode, the longer you hold down the button the faster it winds (well, up to 10 second jumps) when in play mode. The acceleration could be faster.

No, you cannot FF or RR while in
PLAY mode -- at least on my H2. You
have to be in STOP mode on the file,
then they both work fine.

Even the most basic digital recorders
provide capability to FF and RR while
in PLAY mode.

For journalists this is a critical
point.

Not so much complaints as notes to others to be aware of its inevitable (given the price) limitations - the more you realise what it's really best at, the less one is concerned about what it's not best at.

[B]FF/RW works ok for wav, but not mp3[/B]

huh? we (band) use the H2 as a song writing scratch pad and always record at 192k mp3.

It FF/RW just fine, no problem at all here.

but, it would better if it would FF/RW during play back.

there are a lot of complaints around here about short comings of the H2. C'mon it's about $200USD, what do peeps expect from this thing. It's perfect for our us and sounds great.

the podcasts i've heard recorded with the H2 sound great too.

FF/RW works ok for wav, but not mp3.

The non-pausing implementation is I suspect to do with data security within a simple operating system - you're not adding to / reopening files but simply creating them and closing them permanently. Thinking these days tends to be that pause is something you do in editing later - when acquiring the audio, get everything. I have an 8 track HD recorder that works on similar principles.

FF/RW works, doesn't it?

My firmware proposal would simply be to reset the overload indicators if you change the HML switch or the 0-127 setting. The way they stay lit is silly.

Yes dxacel, all good points, I too agree,...

I think the FF/REV Playback works poorly & can be improved.

Record Pause also important for me, not the BWF file marker.

I also do not use the Limiters / MP3 Conversion, etc..

Wold be nice like you say if you can have control over what menu
items you could flash to the unit thru some external software.

Well, now that my initial joy with the H2 has faded a bit I am able to see a few things that one would hope ZOOM could improve upon.

1. It is just ridiculous not to have the capability to use FF and RR while the file is playing. This should be correctable with a firmware update, no?

2. Similarly it is a bit absurd not to be able to use PAUSE in record mode. This has been the single stand out criticism of people I have shown the H2 to.

3. Another recommendation for ZOOM, although not one I would expect them to go for, would be to provide alternate firmware versions, one for professional journalists and others who have no need for guitar/metronome functions.

Hope Zoom can address these points. Otherwise, this is a great recorder!

http://www.tape.com/resource/impedance.html has some good advice on matching impedance.

Pianist, I think the 1800 ohms is a design compromise between the consumer electrets, which will work properly at that loading, and the 600 ohm prosumer microphones.

Many of those stereo omni electret capsules have quite high inherent noise levels, and are not as suitable for wide dynamics recording as the internal H2 capsules. Its 92 dBA is a really wide dynamic range...

Thanks for your reply Trevor.

That figure of 1800 ohms leaves me a little confused, though it might be a matter of terminology...

My stereo omni mics have a quoted impedance of 2.2k, and my understanding was that one should record from these mics using a "mic in" that has an input impedance several times the impedance of the mics. The 20k quoted in the manual would seem to be okay, the 1800 ohm (1.8k) value you mention is not.

The sensitivity of the mics is -35dB (1V/Pa).

Have I misunderstood something here? Would lower-impedance mics give a better recording?

The mic level seems okay but there is a noticable hiss.

I just received the H2 yesterday and began testing it out. It's very easy to use with an intuitive interface. I had my 6 year old play some piano pieces and then played it back through a tube amp and B&W803 speakers. It sounded great with a decent dynamic range and nice soundstage; during quiet parts you could hear whispers in the background very clearly indicating a low noise, high resolution recording. The piano sound, while not quite live sounding, was well represented by the recording. I used Medium gain, 24 bit wav format. Not a very technical review, but I just wanted to convey that it's a great product and will find multiple uses in our household.

The capacity/time list is at http://www.zoom.co.jp/english/products/h2/sd.html

hi all.
can somebady let me know where can i find info and a list on the capacity of .wav recordings in Zoom H2 and how this change according to the sd card i use?

i mean how many minutes of.wav 16 bit can hold a 2gb card and how many minutes a gb?
i would like to find derailed info for every card.
thank you in advance

Gershon, in answer to your second question, {{Blush..}}.
In answer to your first question, when doing post-prod on a presentation, such as, {{Blush..}}, one of mine, I like to have a lapel mike which I EQ, compress, and add 'ambience' in post, as the main audio. Then I have at least one other set of microphones, on satellite MP3 recorder(s), to pick up audience questions (etc). Finally I stretch the audio tracks as required to synchronize them exactly with the mics in the camcorder(s), sliding the tracks in Vegas until all the audio sources are 'in phase'. At this point you have good clean, listenable audio, in lip-sync with the camcorder, and are not subject to the poor quality of those silly camcorder mics, or to having cables running from the camcorder to external mics.
:)

woa trevor, you are one smart dude. Humbled to be having any sort of conversation with you. This is you, right?
http://trevormarshall.com/

Now the question is when would such a lapel mic be preferable to the internal mics?

The EXT MIC input impedance measures at 1800 ohms. I just double-checked.

The small electrets don't really have an impedance. They are usually spec'ed as an output voltage into a given load. The load is often provided by the resistor feeding the power to the powered input in the recorder.

Gershon gave a link to a type of cheap Chinese lapel mic that I tested as OK with the H2. They sound quite good, on a lapel (which is a fairly demanding application). They have two omnidirectional capsules in them, and, on your lapel, match the M level of the recorder at normal speaking levels.

Trevor, you said the input impedance of the mic input is 1800 ohms. My manual states 20k ohms. Have you made a typo, or is the manual wrong?

Please can you let us know the mic impedance of the "ARCHOS stereo electret lapel microphone" for which you got the good results?

Thanks!

Indeed, that looks identical to one of the lapel mics I tried my H2 with, which was labelled 'Sony' but came out of some random factory in China. Can't guarantee that all those Chinese microphones work the same, even when they look the same, but, for the price, what have you got to lose? I bought 6 of those last year, and discarded one as a little noisy... But even it was OK...

Bass is a little heavy with those positioned on your chest, not unlike the heavy bass of the H2 when up close. With the H2 on medium I was unable to overload the input, but it did overload on H... But your mic may differ - it may be from a different factory :)

Sounds interesting. So you think this mic would work well too?

http://cgi.ebay.com/STEREO-LAPEL-MIC-FOR-MINIDISC-FREE-WORLDWIDE-SHIPPING_W0QQitemZ190161015700QQihZ009QQcategoryZ15056QQcmdZViewItem

Here is what I found about the External MIC input, with my H2 'straight out of the box'.

The input impedance is 1800 ohms. It is intended for low impedance microphones. The input impedance did not change significantly when I switched the MIC Power on or off.

I plugged in an ARCHOS stereo electret lapel microphone (my favorite lapel) and it was moving the VU meter to almost the same levels as the internal microphones. An old Sony stereo lapel mic was the same level as the internal microphones at about 12 inches. The H2 seems to like the high-output condenser microphones.

The ext mic input overloads at 12 mV RMS, and, surprisingly, the top half of the sinusoid clips well before the bottom half. H2 engineers need to trim their analog design a little. Asymmetric clipping is a no-no for professional, or even prosumer, applications.

I advanced the digital gain to 104 so that the ext mic input and the digital indicator bar-graph reached clipping and 0dB simultaneously. The spectrum can be found at URL
http://TrevorMarshall.com/temp/EXTMIC_96_24_0db_104.gif

The dynamic range is excellent, with less sampling artifacts (above 20KHz) than the Line input exhibited.

The trick to getting good performance out of the external microphone input (my Firmware is 1.10) is to recognize the low impedance and make sure you use a high output microphone (my lapel mics were rated at about -35dB re 1V/Pa. The Rode SVM are rated at -44dB re 1V/Pa, probably accounting for their lower signal to noise ratio when used with this input. I hesitate to suggest this, but the external microphone input seemed to be well matched to Karaoke with my AKG MB4000C microphones :)

OK. I am happy at this point. I can use this machine. It is very nice indeed. I will take a look at the innards and the power supply noise when I get some spare time, maybe later this week.

Drawing on my own experience and that of others I've now posted a long piece on "How to get the most from the Zoom H2" at http://www.2090.org/zoom/bbs/viewtopic.php?p=96209#96209 - hope it will be found generally helpful.

OK, my H2 arrived a day early, and I have done the easy testing - the Line Input.

The Line Input impedance is approximately 14K ohms. The inputs saturates at a voltage of about 0.566 V RMS, or -2.7dBu, -2.7dBm, -5dBV

It is interesting that the line input overloads at exactly the same point as when the Digital gain setting is set to 100 and 0dB displays on the VU display. My guess is that line-in goes straight into the AD converter. When I buzz the circuitry I will be able to check this out.

The spectra when my H2 is fed with a 404 Hz sine wave from a function generator (3% distortion, so you can see the harmonics at 808Hz, 1212Hz, and etc) can be found at URLs
http://TrevorMarshall.com/temp/Line_441_16_0dB_100.gif and
http://TrevorMarshall.com/temp/Line_96_24_0db_100.gif

I only have SoundForge to do the FFT, so it is not as pretty as some of the other FFTs scattered around the net, but it will do.

I am surprised how clean the recorded signal is. I will try two-tone and other more complex tests later, after I get rid of the power supply noise.

Trouble with my theory that H = M with 10dB of digital gain is that if that were true, then a sine wave signal that just distorts with input at H and level at 100 should not distort when digital level is reduced to less than 100 - (as it would not distort in the analog domain at the "M" setting) - and it does, clearly. OK, end of that theory, but it still remains true that there's no demonstrable benefit in recording at H setting.

I still can't see the use of recording with a limiter in the digital domain under any circumstances. It cannot possibly do anything that a limiter cannot do in post production using the same bits. And having used it during recording, in the H2, you are stuck with the result for ever.

Meanwhile, if you accept that there's no point in using the digital level control other than at 100 for the reasons I've given (and my tests indicate to me that 100 is the magic figure), and that the problem really is that there is limited control of preamp level (trim) from the three position switch, then what are the consequences?

Say you record something live using the built in mics. You think that it's going to be slightly too loud for the "H" setting, so you use "M" instead. According to the book that drops the level 10dB. Now let's say that actually, H would have been fine as the signal would never quite have hit the top of the meter. That's the worst case scenario - you've under-recorded by 10dB when you didn't need to. It's quite easy to simulate that scenario (as posted elsewhere) but going over the ground again has been instructive.

Procedure is to set the H2 to "H" - level 100 - 44.1/16 - and record some white noise generated by Audition. Then continue the recording in a very quiet room. That's the scenario if you'd rightly decided that "H" was the correct setting.

Now while still recording, switch to "M" level, and re-record the white noise (from the same position relative to the source of course). Then continue recording in the quiet room. That's the scenario if you wrongly reduced the sensitivity to "M" when you didn't need to.

Now, to judge the penalty of making that 'mistake', normalise the file in the PC, first normalising the part recorded in "H" and then the part recorded in "M". So now the white noise is full scale in both cases (basically increasing the "M" part of the recording by 10dB). Then delete the second lot of white noise so you can play straight from the "H" recorded silence to the "M" recorded silence, which were both normalised so that they are the same relative level to the source white noise. The result is that I cannot hear any significant difference at the transition from "H" noise to "M" noise, listening with Sennheiser HD580 headphones turned up loud - and frequency analysis in Audition confirms what I'm hearing. Actually, a small bird was audible outside the quiet room, just "tweeting" every few seconds, and the ratio of that "tweeting" to any H2 background noise remains constant.

Therefore, I can see no reason ever to use the "H" setting if you are going to do postpro in a PC later. Under-recording in M and amplifying afterwards in PC software gives just the same result as recording at the correct level in H at the outset. And of course under-recording in M reduces the risk of clipping in H.

Now when I repeated the test with M and L (seeing what the consequence is if you record something in L that you could have recorded in M without it quite clipping), as reported elsewhere the noise level in L is noticeably higher than in M after normalising to the equivalent level - the noise increases by about 6dB. So, don't use "L" unless you are pretty sure you have to in order to avoid clipping.

Thinking about these results, I'm guessing that the H2 actually has a fixed preamp gain, represented by the "M" setting. Elsewhere it's been suggested that the "L" setting introduces a pad on the internal mic, thus accounting for the increase in relative noise. I'm suggesting that the "H" setting is simply obtained internally not by changing the preamp gain, but is achieved by raising the level in the digital domain - and that's something you can instead achieve afterwards in post-production. Hard to prove, but I have my suspicions.

Well, the "proper" use of the H2 gets more and more simple. Record at 100, use M sensitivity unless L is mandatory, and don't use the limiters (IMHO). And you'll get a perfectly good result. Going back to the digital camera analogy, it's really a point and shoot device and does a very good job of that. But if you want the equivalent of a Nikon DSLR, look elsewhere and pay accordingly.

Ozpeter says: "Now you could argue that if you always record at a level of 127, you'll never clip in the analog domain, because you'd see the metering heading for the top way before the analog overload point"

Yes, I would argue that. And I would argue that the limiter, which is an extremely important function when recording live, is only going to work properly if the peak output of the analog, and the peak output of the A-D converter, are both not clipping. From the data posted on the web it seems that both clip at about 90ish, which would imply that 100 is too low a value to select for live use. A limiter can improve the useful signal to noise significantly, as, with a good limiter, one can use a higher analog gain than one might use if paranoid about clipping. The fact that ZOOM engineers put in three limiting profiles makes me want to look at that feature very, very carefully. Using something like the white noise file I prepared (linked from my msg below).

Anyway, I might be wrong, but that's the way I am thinking.. I will connect an oscilloscope and sinusoid/white-noise generators as soon as my H2 arrives on Tuesday. I want to initially focus on the clipping end, the dynamic range, not just the noise floor.

Then I will pull it apart and start buzzing out the analog preamp circuitry.

That's true, from the little clip light you would get that warning when it's too late - but lowering level below 100 still has no particular point.

Look at it this way. Until recently, digital recording equipment never had a digital level control. You don't see them in multitrack hard disk recorders, or good old DAT recorders, etc. Such hardware is always set up so that at the digital full scale is reached just before analog saturation occurs. If the zoom had no 1-127 control, the internally fixed level would be at 100.

So why does the H2 (and similar devices) have that control? It would seem to be due to the lack of a fully variable analog preamp gain control (which DAT recorders etc always do have). With the H2 you've got the three position switch and nothing in between its settings. The 1-127 control is there to provide the illusion that you have more control than that. And if you are using the H2 as a standalone pseudo-analog device, simply replaying its recordings from the headphone output and never doing any PC post-production, then having digital amplification of the recorded signal is perhaps useful. But any "serious" user will be treating it as a digital audio acquisition device and loading the audio into a PC, where with even the most basic freeware software you can do anything the Zoom can do better and non-destructively.

Now you could argue that if you always record at a level of 127, you'll never clip in the analog domain, because you'd see the metering heading for the top way before the analog overload point, and you'd reduce the input sensitivity switch setting from H to M or from M to L rather earlier than strictly necessary. Or you'd move further from the sound source or speak more quietly or whatever. But doing that would tend to reduce the signal to noise ratio in the analog domain which is more critical than optimising level in the digital domain. So I'd see that as counter productive qualitywise.

The "issue" is not so much that the Zoom H2 has a digital input level control that's actually not useful in most cases, but that it doesn't have a continuous control of analog input level feeding a fixed level digital stage. And that's down to size and cost, and I'm not minded to criticise Zoom over that.

>>if you record at less than level=100, the lower metered levels could be concealing possible overload of the analog input.

When I was doing my clipping tests, it looked like when the digital gain was lowered, it seemed that the clip warning went on even though the VU neter was peaking below 0dB, so there issome warning....

If in 24 bits I input a 440Hz tone with level=100 and it's just below the top of the meter scale, then increase the level to say 105 so the level goes off the top of the meter, then load the file into Audition and reduce the level there, the distortion where the meter went off the scale is still present. In other words, it doesn't matter whether the metering shows analog overload (with level = 100) or digital overload (with level greater than 100), it's still overloaded.

If I record a signal below the analog stage's clipping level but with the digital level at 50 instead of 100, I get a wonderfully low noise level in silence, but when restoring the signal to the original level (in the PC), the noise goes back up to the expected level. Theres' no point.

So - if you record at less than level=100, the lower metered levels could be concealing possible overload of the analog input. If you record at greater than 100, there's a risk you might needlessly introduce digital distortion if the level goes over the top in the digital domain while still below saturation in the analog domain. 24 bits won't help. Sorry, but there's no getting around it!

The device defaults to 100 and in my own tests I'm entirely satisfied that metering with the level set to 100 is effectively metering the analog input - which is the key thing. If you find you need to go below 100, you are bound to be recording analog distortion. If you go above, you are needlessly amplifying the digital signal and risking digital clipping. No, I haven't actually tested what happens if you record in 24 bits and deliberately overload digitally a signal known to be below peak level - then reduce it in postproduction in the hope of getting the unclipped audio back - I'll try that now (but I should be doing something else!).

Ozpeter,
The problem with your analogy to digital zoom on a camera is that, with a camera, you are looking at mathematically expanding or contracting a row of just a thousand (or so) pixels, while with a 24 bit audio signal, and even a 16 bit signal, you can expand and compress it digitally without any artefacts at all, providing ZOOM's engineers didn't make a big mistake somewhere. This is because you are dealing with 2**16 or 2**24 levels, and not just with a row of 2000 (or so) pixels. Everything you have concluded in your summary (below) is predicated upon the assumption that 100 is the optimum level for recording with the H2. It may be, I can't tell you for certain, because mine hasn't arrived yet for me to check.

However, I can tell you, as a designer, that the first thing I will be checking is how the limiters (and etc) work when the binary number 127 is chosen instead of 100. I have read the manual, and as far as I can see, the ZOOM engineers seem to be expecting you to use 127 as the base, and not the 100 that the user community has accepted as pragma.

Gershon -

1st question - yes. And if you record at a higher level than 100, you could unnecessarily introduce digital distortion to an otherwise undistorted analog signal, if you set the level too high above 100. Raising the level later in post production by normalising would avoid that digital clipping risk and would be no different to raising the level digitally in the H2.

- The limiters etc seem to serve no desirable function unless perhaps in the context of (say) recording a meeting and transcribing minutes direct from the unit afterwards, where a levelled volume might assist intelligibility.

- The external mic input could be used for recording audio of sources which are loud enough to cover the input's self-noise, especially from mics with a reasonably high output level. However, if you already have something like a minidisc recorder, you might find it better for the purpose. Don't buy a mic for use with the H2 without checking its compatibility in the store first.

- The external line input can be handy in many situations and you should be able to get perfectly good results recording from headphone outputs if the fixed line-level output of the source device is too high for the H2. (Last night I recorded a two-hour radio programme that way for my wife onto the H2 rather than onto minidisc as the speed of subsequent transfer to her PC was so much quicker than MD would have been).

As I've said elsewhere, the Zoom H2 is to audio what a digital camera is to photography. Most non-pro digital cameras have digital zoom as well as optical zoom (in the H2, the optical zoom is the H/M/L switch and the digital zoom is the 1-127 level control) and such cameras also tend to have black and white and sepia settings (etc) which equate to the H2 limiters. Discerning digital camera users never use digital zoom or in-camera colour effects - they take the photo as-is and crop and adjust colour in Photoshop (or whatever) at their leisure afterwards, usually keeping a copy of the original image too. The Zoom H2 should be used just the same way. Mess with the audio on a copy afterwards in postproduction. That's non-destructive and should yield better results than destructively changing the audio for ever in the H2 itself.

Gershon,
I have been unable to find written setup guidance on the web from Zoom engineering. There have been one or two email snippets out there. I own some test equipment which will make it easier to examine optimal settings, and I am looking forward to getting my unit on Tuesday. As an old-school (analog) audio designer, I want to look further into several of the questions you are raising. I will post my thoughts here over the new week, or so... :)

So to summarize..

- at this point has it been confirmed that we should only rely on the LM&H gain settings and leave the level at 100? Recording at level 90 or 80 would just make the problem quieter?

- Do the limiters serve no function? What exactly /DO/ they do in this unit?

- Is the external mic input really not worth even trying?

"But it isn't anything more than a basic portable recorder when you get down to it."

duh...

I got this thing hoping that I could use it for off-camera sound using the AT822, since it was $100 - $200 less than the Minidisk RH-1 or RM-1 (I forget the exact model number). The AT822 is reputed to work great with that player, the only problem being the lack of a limiter in the machine.

Now it looks like in order to get similar results with the H2, I would have to invest in a pre-amp or mixer, which would boost my equipment outlay by $100 to $175, and I still don't have a limiter in the setup, plus it's considerably more bulky.

So I have to say that knowing what I know now, I would not have bought the Zoom. However, I am going to keep it, it's still a neat gadget, and performs very well within its limitations and at the price point. But it isn't anything more than a basic portable recorder when you get down to it. Pity, with some intelligent engineering, it could have been so much more....

I have prepared a limiter-test waveform similar to what I used to use with analog test equipment. It consists of
1) 10 seconds silence
2) instantaneous ramp to -3dB of white noise for ten seconds
3) fade in 60 msec to -15dB, hold for 10 seconds
4) ramp to -3dB in 40msec, fade this to -15db over 10 secs
5) hold at -15dB for 10 seconds.

The file is at http://TrevorMarshall.com/temp/test_limiter.wav

Based on what Ozpeter measured, it would seem that serious testing like this is wasted on the H1. Anyway, I prepared the waveform to tell us something about attack and decay time constants. Pity the limiters apparently don't even work...

Heh, I've just tried the limiter using the simple method of connecting the headphone output of a CD player into the line input of the H2. Set the level from the CD player so that with gain on 100 it's just overloading on the H2 meters. Record half a minute like that for reference. Stop, engage the first of the agc/compressors/limiters, record the same bit again. Repeat for each agc etc etc. Note results!

Now repeat with the level from the CD player set lower, so that overloading would not be happening anyway, and note what happens to levels and dynamics when there's no risk of clipping anyway.

It seems pretty clear (and a later sine wave test confirms) that the limiters etc are operating in the digital domain - the waveform is still clipped at the peaks after limiting - it's just been reduced in level, complete with the analog clip. So the only point in using them would be if you had the level set above 100. However, the sound they impose on the audio is so deeply unpleasant (on music at least) that they can't be recommended under any circumstances.

A limiter is "Device that prevents an audio signal from exceeding a set level"

I have never seen a limiter where that 'set level' exceeds 100%. Whatever was the Zoom engineer thinking, and, more importantly, what was the supervisor in charge of that engineer thinking?

I will run some tests with sinusoidal drive waveforms when I get my unit, as I do know, from personal experience, that one of the most difficult things to do when designing a limiter is to deal with short, sharp, transients. However, even if I can identify that this is the mistake which Zoom has made, it is still not acceptable. There are dozens of good limiters out there which they could have examined in order to deduce what an acceptable limiter behaved like...

A limiter has to handle everything thrown at it. Even if you are in "concert" you have to handle the timpani of "Carmina Burana" as well as the vocal crescendos of "Missa Solemnis."

Great data, Nolonemo, thanks for all your hard work :)

Limiters

OK, last test, checking out the limiters. I wondered if they were kicking in before or after the A/D conversion. I set up the test with the H2 in front of the stereo on a stand, set to M, 100. I adjusted the volume of the stereo so the signal would clip some. I recorded the first 30 seconds of the CD with no limiter, and then the general, concert, and studio limiters. (I adjusted the limiter setting with the Zoom on the stand so as not to change its position.

I dragged the clips into Vegas and did a screen grab. You can see the clipping in the un-limited first take. The second take doen with the general limiter does not clip (the peak is around -0.4 dB, but the concert and studio limiter setting don't prevent clipping. BTW, the music was "In the Mood" off of the Glenn Miller Orchestra's "In a Digital Mood" CD. This is a pretty crisp performance with a lot of sharp transients. So this might not have been the best sample to test with.

www.nolonemo.com/files/limiter.jpg

Analog gain v. Digital gain

I did a test which shows that the analog and digital gain on the H2 do the same thing as in the H4 thread I posted a few posts ago. In sort, if your signal is clipping at the L-M-H gain setting you choose, adjusting the 0-127 digital gain won't fix the clipping.

I set up the H2 in front of my home stereo, set it to M,110, and played the first track of a CD, setting the stereo volume to give me peaks between -6dB and 0 dB on the H2 Vu meter. I recorded about 30 sec of the beginning of the first track on the CS. Then I switched the gain to H (leaving at 110) and recorded the first 30 seconds of the track. Then I dropped the digital gain to 90 (leaving analog gain at H) and recorded the first 30 seconds of the track.

I dragged the clips into Vegas and took a screenshot of the waveforms. In the image linked to below, you can see that the first take is not clipping, the second take is clipping, and the third clip has peaks that have dropped down to near those of the first take, but the waveform is sort of flat along the top, like the second one. This confirms for me that the "digital gain" is only reducing the gain of the already clipped signal coming out of the A/D converter. By the way, the clipping indicator was turning on during the third take, so at least the Zoom wasn't lying about the clipping.

www.nolonemo.com/files/clipping.jpg

OK, I’ve done some external mic noise tests with the H2. I used an Audio Technica AT822, which is a good quality unbalanced cardioid stereo condenser mic. My conclusions are that the using the external mic results in more noise, but to an extent that is only noticeable listening using headphones. Note that this test (and conclusion) does not address other quality of sound issues such as brightness etc.

Methodology

I generated pseudo white noise by turning on the TV and unplugging the antenna. I set up the Zoom about 15” in front of the speaker, set it on M at 100, and adjusted the TV volume to give me -12dB on the Zoom VU meter. I recorded some of the sound, then plugged in the AT, placed it where the Zoom head had been, and recorded again. Then, keeping the same settings, I recorded the Zoom and the AT under a couple of pillows on the bed to get my “silence” samples.

I cut, measured, and saved the middle of each TV noise sample. I also normalized the AT sample to the same RMS as the zoom in Sound Forge. I also normalized the AT silence sample to match the Zoom. I did this by opening the AT TV sample in SF, cutting and pasting the AT silence sample behind it, and normalizing the whole file to match the peak of the Zoom TV sample. A check showed that this resulted in an RMS for the TV portion of the AT file that was within a couple dB of the AT TV sample as normalized using RMS (as above).

Here are the numbers:

H2 external Peak -8.6 RMS -18.6
AT822 Peak -17.2 RMS - 27.7 (after normalization -8.0dB and -18.6 dB)

H2 silence Peak -48.7 RMS -96.0
AT822 silence Peak -60.6 RMS -96.0
AT normalized Peak - 54.1 RMS -96.0

Here is a link to a 320 kpbs mp3 of the samples (there’s a voice intro that says what they are - keep the voice moderate, so the white noise doesn’t play back too loud. I put in a click between the silence samples to set them apart.

www.nolonemo.com/files/H2 external mic.mp3

I also recorded a couple voice samples, again on M at 100. The link is to an mp3 that contains the sequence H2, AT, H2, AT normalized. Again, there’s more noise in the AT file, but not an extreme amount more.

www.nolonemo.com/files/Voice Test.mp3

You can draw your own conclusions. The thing I haven’t yet done is to compare critical sound samples with the Zoom and the AT to see if what I expect would be better sound quality of the AT is worth the increase in noise that comes with using the external mic.

Hi gang,
There's a discussion of external mic issues going on at the Zoom Gear & Home Recording forum over here, with some discussion of the H4 also
http://www.2090.org/zoom/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=9700&sid=17c3499a5c092c623b3022ae242e557e

It has been 35 years since the electret microphone capsules were first entering the market, and back in those days the FET preamplifer was often external, rather than being internal as with the H2 microphones. Transient response varied significantly depending on shortcuts taken in that preamplifer and also the diaphragm weight and electric charge.

Looking at the images of the microphones from Aramri at Photobucket, it appears as though they have a ring of holes around the periphery of the rear of the capsule. This is part of the acoustic circuit for a cardioid electret, although it is a very crude way of providing the rear acoustic load on the cardioid diaphragm. I would expect these capsules to have pretty poor polar patterns at mid frequencies, unless the characteristics of the diaphragm itself provide directionality. Their diameter is too small to do that, unlike, for example, a 1 inch diameter condenser microphone, and so I expect there are a number of tradeoffs in the acoustic circuit which lead to the muddiness and lack of transient response.

I am looking forward eagerly to the arrival of my H2. All in all it seems to be an interesting piece of engineering design...

Interesting comment re transient response - that's not something I tend to think in terms of.

I think when I bought the SVM the price was much the same as the street price of the H2 now! - one does have to be careful not to expect too much of the H2 - but the ext mic input noise just seems unnecessary.

The Rode SVM data sheet is at this URL:
http://www.rodemic.com/downloads/MicSpecs/SVM.pdf

It does show a slightly bright treble, but I will stand by my earlier analysis, less muddy, better transients :)

Thanks, Ozpeter.
The extra brightness of the Rode SVM comes from a better transient response, IMO, less muddy, rather than any treble bias. It just sounds better. Which is no surprise, really :)

You are correct that the signal to noise ratio on the external mic input on the H2 is unacceptable. I also note that the high frequency noise (apparently from the H2 switching power supply) is clearly discernible on the external mic input. It is possible that might come about because of a low sensitivity at the ext mic socket, then, during normalization, the noise floor would be accentuated.

I've now uploaded a 256kbps mp3 version of the test audio - H2 internal, Rode SVM into H2, and Rode SVM into RH-1. http://tinyurl.com/387z3q is the short version of the File Den link.

What I should do next is to heave out my Sennheiser MKH series MS stereo rig with Sennheiser preamp and do the same test again. That way there would be a comparison of the H2 against a very good mic - cruel but the truth! The Sennheiser preamp can output at mic level or line level so it should be possible to do a three way test of H2 standalone, H2 with Sennheisers into H2 mic input, and Sennheisers into H2 line input. Takes time though...!

OK, sorry, my mistake. You normalized the recordings, so that the peak levels should have been the same. Sigh. I need to read before I open my mouth :)

Nolonemo, Ozpeter, thanks for all your data.
My H2 is due to arrive Tuesday, and you have convinced me to open it up and trace the input circuitry. There is something seriously wrong going on, especially looking at the 1/4 inch vs XLR data for the H4 just posted by Dosdan on the 2090.org board.

One thing you didn't mention, Ozpeter, is whether each of the microphones was driving the H2 to the same clipping level (OK, sub-clipping - VU level, as it were...)

It has been 30 years since I designed low noise audio circuits, but let's see if I can understand what they are trying to do with this one. Hopefully, that way we will be able to figure out the best way to use it.

Yeah, testing just throws up more and more cans of worms! And eats time....

I've just played back the same little bit of jazz trio loud on the speakers here and recorded it with the H2 standalone, the H2 with a Rode SVM, and with an RH-1 HiMD with the same Rode SVM. RH-1 on low sensitivity, gain of 16, H2 on medium, gain 100, for both its own mic recording (front face) and the Rode recording. Wave format for H2, 256 Hi-SP for the RH-1 (yes, for a totally level playing field perhaps I should have used wave format for that, but I doubt whether it matters). After the jazz, 30 secs silence. Normalised the three recordings then read the average RMS figure of the noise section in Audition.

Results of measuring the room silence -

H2 front mics : -72.35dB Av RMS
H2 with Rode : -66.81
RH-1 with Rode : -71.96

Trouble is, the sound of the Rode is much brighter than the H2 built in mic. Brightening the H2 sound with a bit of EQ does raise the noise floor a little, but it's still much more noticable in the H2 Rode recording. But I have to admit that you don't hear the hiss till the music is absent.

Maybe I should qualify "useless" a bit - what I mean is, having an RH-1 HiMD, I wouldn't use the H2 for external mic recordings, due to the noise issue. Owning the H2 doesn't incline me to sell or even just pack away the RH-1. The have their respective strengths and weaknesses and each is a tool for a different range of tasks.

I'll see if I can put together a demo audio file of this test and upload it somewhere.

I finally got the H2 to work with my PC as an input mic. I had to disable the current audio driver so the H2 can take over completely. Once I did that the H2 is configured as input and output device. I can hear my live recording via the H2. That is cool.

Hope this would help someone who had the same problem as me.

Thank you for all your ideas and help.

Ozpeter: I found that although there was noise with an external mic (AT822), it was only a little higher than the noise I get with the AT822 plugged into my Panasonic GS500 camcorder (I think I posted some samples below), which I always thought had pretty good preamps. Having said that, the AT822 was somewhat less sensitive than the built-in mics, and I didn't do head to head noise comparisons between external and internal. I think I'll do that this weekend.... I also want to do my own test to confirm that dialing down digital gain won't prevent clipping from using a too-high L-M-H setting.... One day I may actually do something besides tests with this thing :)

Ozpeter, A quantified signal to noise ratio (clipping vs noise floor) for both the external inputs would make me very happy. Or unhappy, as the case may be :(

I'd go along with "useless" - the noise level is very high - I cannot think of any circumstances where you'd want to use any external mic into the ext mic input in preference to the built in mics - no matter how good the external mic, as the sound will be ruined by the hiss. Not sure if you were looking for a link to posted audio - I guess I could do one later.

Thanks nolonemo, the discussion at that link was invaluable. I just bought a couple of M-Audio 10db attenuators, since analog M and H give a much better signal to noise ratio than H. I might as well do the padding externally to the H2 when using external microphones.

Oh - BTW - I read someone say that the external microphone input is useless. Can anybody point me to a link which might quantify 'useless'?

Oops, that should be "tests posted in the link later on in this post"

Richard said: >>If we start at 127 for digital level (let's call it like that for convenience), then we can use the lowest analog gain setting, then less noise. If your level is a little too hot, just lower the digital level a bit. If the level is way too hot, then lower the analog gain. This will make sure you use the best gain structure to achieve clean recordings.

But, according to the tests posted here, the digital level won't fix clipping that has occured in the A/D converter, all it does is lower the already clipped signal. If that's so, the only real use for the digital level adjustment is to boost a signal that's low, it can't "fix" a signal that's too high and is clipping. I.e., if you're clipping at H and 100, the only fix is to drop down to M, staying at H and dropping to 90 will only reduce the level of the clipped signal. Of course, this analysis is based on tests done on the H4; but the general consensus seems to be that the H2 works the same way. (see bot's post with the embedded graphic here:
http://www.2090.org/zoom/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=7997&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=17&sid=a02d56600d29e20ff8447d4e56fc9e86

And, like others have said, it seems to me that if the digital gain is just boosting the already digitized signal, then there is no advantage to doing it in the Zoom as opposed to doing it in post, since the same operation is being performed on the digital data in either case (unless you want to be able to use the sound right out of the Zoom). I generally normalize my levels in post anyway....

Richard,
Thanks for the hard numbers, they are invaluable. Some folk have spoken about the 1-127 Digital level adjust as being lossy. I would think that with 24 bit recording one could absorb the loss of resolution. Can you detect more quantization noise at low gain-setting levels if the H2 is set to 16bit instead of 24 bit?
Also, I would have thought that the amount of generated noise would be the same as the gain increase with the analog switch, yet you are suggesting that the signal-to-noise improves as you increase the mic gain switch. Any idea why?

That's great news on the Lo-cut filter, well-behaved and easily compensated in post-prod.

martin, if you look at the specifications tab, you'll see the model no. of the card: TS4GSDHC6. The card is in the operation confirmed cards list on the official zoom site:

http://www.zoom.co.jp/english/products/h2/
http://www.zoom.co.jp/english/products/h2/SDlist.html

The link I gave has been truncated in posting - here's the same thing in more compact form - http://tinyurl.com/3dlqoa

I think I'd go by the tests at http://www.2090.org/zoom/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=9702&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0 when it comes to noise and gain.

Richard I think has simply identified that there's 12dB of digital gain to be had if you go from 100 to 127. There's only a need to do that if you can't do it in postproduction.

Having now received my H2, and had the chance very briefly to test it at a recording studio, indeed the external mic input as it stands is unusable due to severe noise issues. Only on the L setting is the noise tolerable, and then the input level to drive it is close to domestic line level. If you are going to try to use it via some external device you'd probably do better to use a normal mic preamp (stand alone or in a mixer) and use the line input.

Having said that, it seems to me that the whole point of the device is its built in mics, which are remarkably good for the price and the fact that there are two stereo pairs in there. Clearly the signal path from the internal mics to the internal mic preamp is quite different from the path from the external mic socket to wherever it goes. It seems like the external mic socket doesn't actually go to the mic preamp as such.

So in comparing this with alternative devices, you'd have to take the H2's built in mics and recorder, and then compare that with external mics running into a different recorder, and see how the internal mics stand up against other typical mics. So in due course I'll be seeing what the H2 sounds like compared to an RH-1 HiMD recorder with a Rode NT4, a standard Sony T mic, a Naiant pair, etc etc. Trouble is, really to compare you'd have to take into consideration the H2's four-mic array, which in some situations would give it the edge of many of the alternatives.

So - I guess in summary, really all you can do is consider the recording task at hand, and whether the Zoom H2 as it stands is the best tool, bearing in mind the available budget and the available space in your kit bag - is it important to go wire-free, or doesn't it matter if you have a mic (or two stereo pairs) and a mixer (for the two stereo pairs) and a recorder at the output of the mixer?

Hope that makes some kind of sense....

Hi all.
Can somebody let me know if this card is compatible with the H2?

http://www.plaisio.gr/product.aspx?catalog=15&category=69976057&product=912131

The site is in Greek and it says that the product should support SDHC format (SD 2.0).

Thank you in advance

@Richard: Big thanks for sharing your findings. So is the 100 barrier discussed below just psychological? If 127 is in fact unity gain, I don't see why there'd be a quality difference between 100 and 99.

Ok, just received my H2, and am very pleased. I did some testing to make sure I will be using the right gain structure.
I had to validate what is going on with the level control, the one after the analog preamp, 1-127. Readings I had with a tone are : 127=0, 121=-3, 114=-6, 107=-9, 100=-12, 76=-18, 55=-24, 48=-30, 27=-36, 14=-42, 9=-48, 6=-52, 4=-60, 1=-71. That shows that if we use the 100 as a normal level, I loose 12db, which corresponds approx to the difference between hi and mid gain, or mid and low. So you will have to use a higher gain setting with more noise. I noticed that there is about 6 or 7 db of more noise every time I go 1 step higher in gain (analog switch). I measured in ref. to Lo gain, Mid is 14db higher, and High is 24 db higher.

If we start at 127 for digital level (let's call it like that for convenience), then we can use the lowest analog gain setting, then less noise. If your level is a little too hot, just lower the digital level a bit. If the level is way too hot, then lower the analog gain. This will make sure you use the best gain structure to achieve clean recordings.

I find that 24db difference between Hi and Lo gain is not great...the difference between a rock band at 110db, and a soft conversation at 60db is 50db, far from 24db. We will have to lower the digital gain somehow not to overload in some loud situations.

I made some other tests with noise and a dba meter in front of the H2. Digital gain at 127. At High analog gain, I had to push 80dba in the air to obtain a 0vu reading on the meter. At 100dba, the red led was starting to
flicker. If we extrapolate, we can supply 104dba to the capsule for a 0vu at Low gain without moving down digital gain. The led would start flickering at 124dba...(loud !!!)But we would have to move the digital level to 75-76 to obtain 0vu... These are obtained with a source of noise, probably these numbers would change if I was using impulse sound, but I don't have measuring tools for that kind of testing.

I also measured the response of the Lo-Cut filter. Zoom are very shy on the specs. The slope starts with -1db at 100hz, -2db at 80hz, -3db at 75hz, -7db at 50hz, -16db at 32. Looks like a 6db / oct. nice roll-off. If you are recording anything that has not much sound at 50hz,like voice, you might as well set lo-cut on. You will be able to drive more level without background noise.

Few persons were questioning the use of an transformer for external mikes. Usually the pro mikes want to see an impedance of around 2k ohms to be happy. If we load them with the H2 input, at 20k ohms, you will not get the full level from the mike, and most probably end up with more noise and not a good frequency response. There are some units build exactly to adapt these impedances, one of them is "Beachtek". They are build to adapt good mikes on small digital cameras. They cost few hundred dollars, but then what is the use of spending money on good mikes, if you don't get them to perform adequately.

This is my first day of tests with the H2, more to come when I will start doing real life recordings....

So far, so good, it's a great machine....

Richard Lussier

Anyone know how to get the Zoom H2 to start faster. At first start up on my 4GB SDHC was quick. Now, it takes 60seconds to boot. I have the same amount of data as last week. Before it slowed down, it would take 10 seconds to boot. Why the longer pause this week? Do I need to reformat? Is there a particular way it needs to be formated? Thanks

I just purchased the unit after reading Mark's review, and it's awesome. Here are a bunch of acoustic guitar test clips, just placing the H2 on a table in the living room a couple feet away, and playing into it:

http://www.hawaiiguitar.com/news.html

Tony, the "Phones/Line Out" jack means headphones, not telephones. It's an output for connecting headphones to, or for plugging into an external amplifier.

Reading comments below it seems that the H2 can be used to digitise a line in from a synth to a mac. How would this compare to the Sappire LE from focusrite - would the usb be a limiting factor (it seems the sappire is firewire)? Both have good reviews - but I could also use the H2 for field recording, giving two functions in one package. It looks like both convert upto 24bit/96khz.

@Tony: I’ve had good results with JK Audio’s cheaper QuickTap, though it mixes the caller’s voice and the interviewee’s to mono. These days, I use Skype instead, which makes it easy to record both sides of the call to separate tracks and usually sounds better than the telephone. More on both approaches here.

In order to get both RX & Tx sides You need a hybrid like
http://www.jkaudio.com/that-1.htm
they make cellphone hybrids too

Me again (posting below). I should clarify that i have been plugging the phone into the Extrenal Mic In slot, as the Phones/Line Out hole doesnt pick up the person on the other end of the call.

Has anyone used their H2 for recording telephone interviews? I have a few times but there is a lot of white noise in the back, and surprrisingly the huge manual doesn't address the best settings for this even though the H2 has a telephone jack.

any hints/suggestions appreciated!

WRT posting links I'd Love to I dont have a web site for my field recordings and I was too busy playing to record the Goats but Try

http://www.wingstocknj.com/batttleofthebands.shtml

www.theholygoats.com

www.myspace.com/theholygoats

@nolonemo: Thanks for the shockmount photos! I'm just waiting for someone to build a shockmount based on a disembodied hand like the one above. Mount that sucker on the end of a pole and you'd have an amazing interviewing device.

anon,
Fog who?! just kidding.

Can you post links to some of the audio? your trio too.

I played (opened for headliners )105.7 Wingstock in Lakewood nj Sat. After our set I Got very good results holding the "Stick" Full on rock levels (not metal) 100ft from stage 2ch surround 256mpeg low Gain 105 level Lowfilter on . Marshall tucker, Little feet, Paul rogers & Foghat:) Nite before I captured my acoustic trio in a club with EXcellent results 5ft out 90degree low gain 112 level Great sense of abience / field

Just recorded an outdoor carnival gig yesterday playing in a folk/rock band. There were 2 guitars, mandolin, bass, drums and vocals, through a PA system with a few monitors on stage. I set up the H2 on a mic stand right in front of the band at the edge of the stage pretty close to the monitors, using the 90 degree mics and low gain setting. Recorded very well. My only regret is that I forgot to put the windscreen on. Oh well... next time...

nolonemo, I bet you could sell those on eBay! That looks great!

That's freakin' brilliant nolonemo!

@Ben: I got mine working as a USB mic last night. You must set the option in the H2's menu to enable input from USB. Also, after plugging mine in, my computer wanted to default all audio devices to the H2, but since it doesn't have playback capability, my speakers stopped working! Easy fix- just change the default audio device in the Control Panel to be your audio card and select the H2 as a mic from whichever application you are using.

I had to temporarily disable my onboard soundcard to be able to use the H2 as an USB audio interface in WinXP.

Here's a DIY shock mount for the H2. It's made of 5/16" medium wall tubing bent to shape in a vise, the bottom partially flattened and drilled and tapped for a 1/4-20 thread. I placed some thin steel rod into the bend area of the tubing to reinforce it before I bent it, but it's not really necessary, though it does make the mount more rigid.

The mount almost completely eliminates handling noise when using the H2 on the handle.

Shock mount: http://www.nolonemo.com/files/zoom%20shock.jpg

Shock mount with car velcro dash mount:

http://www.nolonemo.com/files/zoom%20dash.jpg

In case all of you don't know, Adobe bought syntrillium, which created Cool Edit Pro. Adobe Audition is basically Cool Edit Pro on steroid.

I am still wondering if anyone here can get their H2 to work as a microphone via the USB port. I can't get mine to work. I really wish it would.

Also, I found that the AA battery life is about 5 days. Does anyone have any experience with battery life on this device?

reaper's quality/price can't be beat.

I'll add that Reaper (and possibly Wavosaur) can actually be installed onto the Zoom H2 itself. So you can plug your H2 into any handy PC, run the program from the H2's memory card, and edit away. Well, it works like that on another broadly similar device I have, and I see no reason why it shouldn't on the H2 apart from its slow USB speed.

Reaper (www.reaper.fm) is my favourite. Adobe Audition has an excellent stereo editor but it's not cheap. Wavosaur is a freeware editor recently developed which looks pretty good (http://www.wavosaur.com/).

I am in the process of assessing WAV/MP3 Record /Editing Software to use with my Zoom H2 Recorder. I have tried complex software such as Cubase & Fruity Loops but want something a little more simple like Audacity, Wavepad, Cool-Edit Pro.

I like the way that Wavepad lets you scroll in real time forward and reverse to quickly navigate during the playback,
however will not allow you to save in original 24 Bit quality

Audacity and Cool-Edit Pro can save in 24 Bit but do not seem to have the Wavepad cursor scroll navigation during playback
( perhaps on the next release )

Has anyone else tried these or other programs that may offer features I am looking for that I have not yet found in a simple application.

"auto recording function...will not restart if the input sound level is above the preset level."

yeah, it would be great if it did restart. that would help keep the flow in a song writing session.

Hi:

I just got the H2 last week. It is nothing but a dream come true. I couldn't believe the 91 page manual. This little device can do so much.

However, I am having trouble trying to make the H2 to record via the USB port. Everytime I try that, my computer just says there is an error with the input device. I tried it on my XP machine and my Vista machine. Do you have any comment on this?

Also, the auto recording function is slightly (Yes, only slightly) disappointing in that if you use the auto stop function, the device will not restart if the input sound level is above the preset level. I wish it would do that.

The Dane-Elec card was recognized by the H2 and was formated.I have not tested for data errors.

My assumption would be class 2. This other website says that the Dane-Elec DASD4096R 4 GB SDHC card is NO MORE than 3 MBps read/write transfer rate:
http://www.antonline.com/p_DA-SD-4096-R-CN_287930.htm
The Dane-Elec site says the MINIMUM allowable read/write rate for an SDHC card is 2 MBps:
http://www.dane-elec.fr/scripts/home/publigen/content/templates/TPL_ADV_INFO_C1_S1.asp?P=378&L=EN&SYNC=YES
so that brackets the speed for this card UNLESS Buy.com is offering a batch of "out of spec" underspeed (below 2 MBps) cards so cheaply.

'Dane-Elec 4GB SDHC card'

I was not able to see a speed class advertised for this card
is it a class 4 or class 6 or slower class 2

Another footnote on that Dane-Elec 4GB SDHC card @Buy.com. If you sign up for a "Google Checkout" for the first time, you can bring the price down to $13 (with rebate and free shipping).

Thanks, Greenmachine, I'll keep my digits crossed on receiving a usable SDHC card.

odin7: I think you're confusing bits (b) and Bytes(B) here. 8 bits equal 1 Byte. As I understand it, Class 2 cards have a minimum write speed of 2 MB/s (Megabytes per second), that would be 16 Mb/s (Megabit per second), which is perfectly sufficient to keep up even in the most demanding recording modes of the H2 (96/24/2 or 48/24/4). 4608 kb/s = 4.5 Mb/s = 0.5625 MB/s

I was looking at the properties of a recorded WAV file from the H2 which was with a 24 bit 96 kHz sample rate. This is at the most processing intensive mode, where data transfer errors can arrise according to the H2 manual. The properties window also stated the file had a 4608 kbps bit rate. Since this is 4.6 Mbps can I assume then that anything less than a class 6 speed (6 Mbps) SDHC card is going to have data drop outs at this highest recording quality? I just ordered a class 2 speed SDHC card, so I guess I'm in for a bunch of errors at this recording mode.

I just made a quantum leap from using a cheap recorder (meant for voice only really) to ordering the H2 for song writing sessions with my partner. couldn't wait until xmas, hahahaha.

thx for the huge review, it really helped!

hey y'all,
I just ordered an H2 from BSW. they have a $20(USD) discount so that the H2 will cost $179, with free shipping. Simply use the promotional code: 72819 at Checkout for your discount.

http://www.bswusa.com/podsqod.asp

Forgot to add ........... FREE SHIPPING!

H2 Community -
Here is a good deal on a "Dane-Elec" 4GB SDHC Card at Buy.com. $23 after the rebate. Dunno if it will be compatible, so I'll let you all know when I get it. Or you can risk it and order it now, while its in stock:
http://www.buy.com/prod/dane_elec_4gb_secure_digital_high_capacity_sdhc_card/q/loc/14982/204304886.html?adid=17662#cRevSec
At that price it probably has the slowest 2MB/sec. speed.

"In USB I/F mode can you use the line in as source rather than internal mics?"

Yes. Or external mics if that's what you ant to do. See page 76 of the manual where it says that all the input sources available for recording to the H2 (listed on page 18) can be sent to the computer with the Audio I/F

In USB I/F mode can you use the line in as source rather than internal mics?

Sounds odd. The first thing I would do is try this out on a PC. If it's working on a PC, as it does with me, then you've isolated the problem in that the Apples don't recognize the H2 as an Audio I/F. If it doesn't work even on the PC then perhaps there's a problem with your unit. (or that you're not following directions well!)

Thanks Gershon. I have read the directions. When I plug the H2 into the computer via USB the computer will only recognize the H2 in storage mode. In this situation the H2 will not allow me to move to the I/F mode. If I am already in this mode with I plug in the computer will not read the device. thanks for any help. Peter

Whoops, I skipped a step. At the USB screen, select USB I/F. Then select connect.

Peter, Did you follow directions of the manual on page 74?
You need to scroll through the menu until you find "USB" - then scroll to "connect" and hit the record button. That should get you there. If that doesn't work, I don't know what to tell you.

I suspect all kinds of control/diags/ mod is possible via usb interface. I just got mine & would love to see a remote BT or IR control to start / pause/ stop recordings ?

Have anyone tried to check H2 noise level of line in (I mean recording from Line IN with short circuit pins)? I'd be thankful for the possibility to download short WAV file with this signal. If noise is low enough I'll buy H2 and try to do some modding or external preamps.
Thanks in advance!

I am not an experienced audiophile and purchased the H2 to record interviews and perhaps play with the idea of making something out of them. I have an Apple Powerbook G4, I have downloaded Audacity but cannot get the H2 to act an an audio I/F. When I plug the H2 into the computer via USB the H2 will only go to storage mode. Any help would be appreciated. (I have been able to listen to recordings I have on the SD card through the computer.)

@Anonymus: yes, I do mean insert the plug in a 5.1 (total six channels) track or bus since the plug-in has 6 IN/6 OUT. Only the first four INs are really working and the Zoom2Five expect the H2 stream to be L R Ls Rs. The output will be in a standard L R C Lfe Ls Rs. In the absence of Logic, you can easily test the AU version with TwistedWave.

@Daniel: you mean in a 5.1 track in Logic ot where?

Please post up here when you know the results about the test.

"I have mistakenly pressed the menue button and a message comes up saying "Now Recording", but this is not the case, as the red light is still flashing and the counter is not incrmenting."

I think the message "Now Recording" is intended as a warning that you can't access the menus once you are in record-ready (or record) mode - it's not meant to imply that recording is actually happening. It should say "Can't - Recording", or "No access now" or something.

If you want to access the menus while monitoring, you need to turn on constant monitoring mode.

@Thomas: Logic Pro and Soundtrack Pro are listed as "not tested". In the next few weeks, I'll have access to Logic so I'll be able to check if my plug-ins work in there or not. What I can right now though is that you have to insert the Zoom2Five in 5.1 track or bus and be sure that the quad stream from the H2 goes into the first four input of the plug-in.

yes, i am in mac OS, i dowloded this but locic don't see it although it is properly in the sustem folders..
and as i see in your web logic isn;t a compatible application with this....
any help on that?

thanx again, good work anyway

@Thomas: when you say "Logic", I guess you mean on Mac OS X. I propose to you my Audio Units plug-ins http://www.ambisonicstudio.com/. To transcode the H2 quad surround output to 5.1, use the Zoom2Five plug-in. To transcode the quad surround to stereo, use the Zoom2B and then the B2Stereo, both part of the B2X suite. There are probably some signal routing idiosyncrasies in Logic, but I guess you'll have to experiment to find them out since I don't use Logic myself.

thanx for the reply.
you mean to import both the front and rear recorded files and encode them internally on my computer?
how is this possible? ( i use logic as a daw)

thanx again

Thomas, regarding access to the folders, when recording to
Front, Rear, or 2Ch Surround you are able to select thru the menu any of the folders to play & record to. The exception is the 4ch Folder that holds 4ch surround recording, that is only accessible when you are in that recording mode. Yes, it is not visible in the menu folder selection in other recording modes,
however the files in that directory can od\f course played thru the recorder and viewed on a computer. Do all your post processing on a computer and not on the H2 as it is slow.

I like to record in 2ch Surround as it makes use of all 4 microphones and produces a standard sterio MP3 or Wave file.

One more flaw I noticed that I discovered when trying to record,
after you press the red record button to be in record-standby,
you can only record if you press this button again. I have mistakenly pressed the menue button and a message comes up saying "Now Recording", but this is not the case, as the red light is still flashing and the counter is not incrmenting.

i finally got the H2. it seems good although very plastic....
i have two questions for those who have experience on it:
1) i record in the 4 channel surround option and i have 2 files in .wav format .
i encoded the first (it took more than half an hour for the 6:00 minutes) and after that i have the new stereo piece, which sounds much lower than the rear pair of the previous recording. the front mics didn't have very big input signal.
is this reduction of the volume normal while encoding? i didn't use the panning.
2) how do you reach this specific folder where thr surround 4 channel recording are being saved to?

thanx in advance

thanks Greenmachine, yes they do look larger & have better s/n

looks like one could experiment with the internal mics, perhaps
have the option of being able to plug 4 seprate external capsules or routing thru external pre-amp piggy-back circuit

perhaps having a vatiable mechanical adjustment slider
for the front & back microphone p/u angle.

any other silly ideas !

Not at all like the H4, identical to mod 3wire JFET Electret.

Some pics of the inside are here:
http://s243.photobucket.com/albums/ff112/aramri/Zoom_H2/

The capsules are probably 9 or 10 mm in diameter and cardioid, unlike the mentioned WM-61A capsules, which are 6 mm and omnidirectional.

Anyone been brave enough to remove the 4 screws to open the H2 ?

Looking thru the grill behind strong backlight, the microphone
placement was not quite what I expected, not at all like th H4

Microphones are closer to the middle and seem smaller.
perhaps using the smaller PANASONIC WM-61A Electret Mike
20-20kHz, Sensitivity of -35dB and a S/N ratio >62dB

Perhaps when the 1 year warantee is up along with other Mods.

Is it possible that the Front/Back markings are reversed? I recorded last night 90 deg. Front (Control screen towards sound source) an the file is marked Rear.

What's even nicer is that mp3DirectCut has some sound editing tools such as "normalize". So really all I need to do is dump the file onto my computer with an sd card reader and make the changes right away with mp3DirectCut. It took a second for mp3DirectCut to open my 3 hour file whereas it took Audacity about 10 minutes.

That mp3DirectCut is a nifty little program. Thanks!

See page 53 of the manual for how to split in the H2 itself but I suspect this would be easier done after downloading to the PC (David Battino's suggestions should help with that).

@Gershon:

I'm assuming it would have been easier to just cut the file into smaller segments.

You might try doing the computer transfer with a USB 2.0 Hi-Speed card reader and then editing the MP3 directly rather than convert-loading it into Audacity. I use Deep Niner's MP3 Trimmer for that; Rogue Amoeba's Fission has a much nicer display but costs more. Both are Mac programs. On Windows, try mp3DirectCut. It's free.

Can someone offer me some step by step instructions on how to split tracks? My wife just recorded a 3 hour lecture as an mp3 with the H2. I've now moved it to Audacity and increased volume. Each step took a long time (moving file to computer, opening file in Audacity, selecting all, Amplifying, exporting as mp3). I'm assuming it would have been easier to just cut the file into smaller segments. Is there a way to do that in the H2 and then export the separate parts?

How to Save H2 Settings.

As you know, the H2's settings are saved on the SD card, so if you format the card, all the settings are reset to their default. Here's a workaround to save your settings and/or transfer them to another card.

Set up the H2 the way you want, then open the SD card, either via the H2 USB connection, or in a card reader, and copy the SYS folder to somewhere on your PC (or Mac). (The SYS folder contains a file that apparently contains the settings.)

If you copy the saved SYS folder to a formatted SD card, when you put that card in the H2 and fire it up, it will have the settings you set up at the beginning of this example. (You could probably accomplish this just by copying the file inside the folder, but for some reason I prefer working with the folder.)

If you're using a bunch of cards, you could copy the SYS folder with the settings you want to all of them and avoid having to thumb through the menus to set them up. Similarly, if you don't want to delete individual files on a card prior to re-use, you could format the card and copy the SYS folder over.

BarryS,

Thanks.

I have a couple more questions. I've tried my Sennheiser ME66 (self-powered) with and without a line-matching transformer. I've also tried a RODE NT2 and NT3. Both self-powered but the RODE NT2 shotgun gives me such a low signal when powered that it's completely unusable. I thought maybe there was something wrong and it wasn't getting power. But I tried it on my friend's HVX200 without camera-supplied phantom power and it worked just fine. Must be some incompatibility with the H2. Strange that my ME 66 works fine though.

I've also tried a little Sony ECM-717. It's a little consumer mic powered by a watch battery. http://reviews.cnet.com/microphones/sony-ecm-717/4507-6469_7-20038201.html?tag=nav

It doesn't seem to matter much if the "plug-in" power is turned on or not. With the H2s plugin power turned on and the Sony turned off.. it's not really supplying the mic with anywhere near enough juice to get a decent signal. If the plugin power doesn't help with a little powered consumer mic.. what the heck is it for? And, even with it self-powered I have to have the H2's gain on HI and the level cranked up to about 125.

I also tried a little Sony ECM-DS70P http://reviews.cnet.com/microphones/sony-ecm-ds70p/4505-6469_7-20648800.html
This mic is not self-powered and I get nothing from it unless I turn on the "plug-in" power. Even still, the signal is pretty weak and I have to have "plugin" power turned on.

I've also noticed that with any and all of these mics so far.. when recording and getting an acceptable level.. if ANYTHING jumps up a bit, I frequently get this sound like the mic has hit some "ceiling"? It just abruptly sort of gives you this jarring sound like you've just thumped the end of the mic. You can get a good recording if you're very careful and the source audio is fairly steady. However, the mics on the H2 seem to be MUCH more forgiving. If I get out of range, it just distorts a little. Never this jarring "thumped" sound. Do you know what's going on? Someone said I might be overloading the preamps.. but doesn't the external jack use the same pres as the onboard mics? If so, why would I ONLY have the problem with external mics?

It's appearing that not just any mic will work well as an external mic with the H2. I'm hoping that someone with access to many more mics dials in the perfect external mics to use, because my results have been all over the place.

Thoughts about what's going on? And or, a suggestion on the best all-around external mic to use with the H2? Best shotgun for dialogue to use with the H2? Best external mic for environmental ambient sounds?

Skip--If you can use the low or mid gain levels to get a good signal, then forget about the levels control. If you have some really quiet sounds, the high gain will boost the signal, but at the expense of some noise. Raising the "recording level" above 100 might be preferable if you didn't need all the boost (and noise) of high gain, but you can do the same thing in your audio software--with more control. If you record at 24 bits, your peaks don't need to be as close to 0 db. Peaks at -6 db or -12 db are enough to get a clean signal at 24 bits.

It's worth experimenting with some different settings to see what works for you. Some sounds mask noise better than others and people have different tolerances for noise and distortion.

BarryS,

Ok... after more experience with this recorder... I've bought into the keeping the level at 100 or above. But, if you have a choice of getting where you want to be by either adjusting the level above 100 OR changing the gain one level up... which is more preferable?

The recording level control is the worst "feature" of the H2, because it's completely counterintuitive. The three position analog gain should be a continuous setting and controlled by the front level buttons. Control of post-analog levels should be on the side and require some extra step to set--discouraging it's use unless the operator understands the control.

Correcting this by firmware isn't possible and Oz mentions, it seems to be some weird holdover function. I can't think of any good reasons to drop the level below 100--ever. Doing so reduces the ability of the H2 to handle loud transients--reducing the distortion-free dynamic range.

Reducing signal level in the digital domain is also available on MD recorders. I guess it's just a hangover from the all analogue days, to make people feel comfortable... as far as I can see, just about all the signal processing features of the H2 only have any use if you have no access to a DAW for post-processing - maybe a journalist in the field might find some things handy to use prior to uploading to base from a phone or whatever. It's worth thinking of it in digital camera terms - nobody who has photoshop etc on their PC would think of using digital zoom or black-and-white or sepia in-camera, unless you wanted to print direct from the camera.

I guess that reducing the level on the H2 below 100 is a bit like digital wide-angle?!

Can you think of a situation when, if used correctly, there IS a benefit of adjusting the signal level to below 100? Id not, what were they thinking at Samson when that put that in there? Does anyone think this really can be fixed by a firmware update? Do the folks at Samson really read this blog? Has anyone asked them about this and gotten any sort of response?

The recording level control works on the signal after conversion from analog to digital, so if you go below 100, you're just chopping down the signal after it gets recorded. If you see the mic light flickering, the signal mis distorting in the analog stage--so you are getting distortion even if you can't hear it. Depending on thre strength of your signal, reducing the recording level may or may not cause noticeable distortion, but it doesn't really accomplish anything and it has the potential to do major damage to a good analog signal. Use the gain switch to adjust your levels and ONLY use the recording level in the range of 100-127.

Yah.. sorry I was hitting the wrong buttons,

I am quite happy with this recorder, there are a few quirks
and features that I am shure will refine over time...
A question with recording using microphone(s).
I noticed that I can get the MIKE ACTIVE LED
to flicker as I lower the level adjustment
the book indicates MIKE ACTIVE LED flicker is from "distortion" ( over-driven ? )

This can not be the case as playback sounds fine.

thks

-----Original Message-----
From: Rob Garofala [mailto:rgarofala@samsontech.com]
Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2007 6:46 AM
To: Bob McVicar
Subject: RE: please can you clarify..

When using the line in jack on the H2 you can use the recording level control on the front of the H2 to adjust the level.

odin7:

The mp3 FF and FR sort of work, but are definitely not the best implementations I've experienced on a DAP so far.
You hardly hear anything during FF or FR, you have to observe the display. The first five seconds you hold down the button, practically nothing is happening, after 5 seconds it skips forward or backwards in 5 seconds steps (for each second you hold down the button it jumps by 5 sec). After another 5 seconds of holding down the button (10 sec total), it skips in 10 seconds steps (10 sec for each second you press the button).

I suppose there will be a few quirks and things to get used to
But I do enjoy using this recorder. I have been recording in 2 channel surround MP3 @ 196 for now untill I get more memory.

Sound quality is good, and I plan to build Binaural Microphones
with a simple low noise pre-amplifier that can plug into the line input ( bypassing the internal pre-amplifier ) and hopefully improve on the signal / noise

I just mean that it that LEVEL moves up or down evenly or eaqually ( not exponentially or logarithmic )

I noticed the MIC ACTIVE LED indicator still stays on even when a line in is pluggd in but I have only seen it flicker when using internal / external microphones so one must watch the level bar indicators to avoid over-driving, clipping, distortion

A friend who purchased an H2 is claiming that the FF - fast forward feature does not work for playback of MP3 files though it works for WAV files. Has anyone noticed this glitch and if so, can Zoom fix it with a firmware update?

Shaggy, I haven't tried to use the line-in yet. Does line in ever get an LED response (clipping or no clipping)? And pardon my ignorance but what exactly do you mean by linear control?

( forgive my spelling lets try this again)

Did more tests on Line input and internal microphone. I had good linear control with the LEVEL CONTROL for Hot and Weak Line input signals.

Using the Internal Microphones, setting the LEVEL CONTROL
lower influenced the Mike Active LED.. indicating distortion, and the lower the LEVEL the LED would flash as if it was clipping the signal or distorting.

But when I listened to the tests I found that in either case there was no apparent audio distortion I could detect.

In both tests I had good linear control, and no distotion even if the LED was indicating such. On a rather hot line level input I was not able to get the LED to flash.

( forgive my spelling )

Did more tests on for Line input and internal microphone. Interesting .. I had good linear control with the for Hot and Weak Line input test.

Using the Internal Microphones, setting the
lower influenced the Mike Active LED indicating distortion, and the lower the LED would flash as if it was clipping the signal.

But when I listened to the tests I found that in either case there was no apparent audio distortion I could detect.

In both tests I had good linear control, and no distotion even if the LED was indicating such for Microphone. On a rather hot line level input I was not able to get the LED to flash.

oops, good thing though... One can adjust level control for line input...Just tried it again ...that is good. !

sorry about the confusion, I am still unclear if the
uses digital manipulation or
analog manipulation, and if it is lenear. I remenber reading a previos post about this for level control below 100 may have a limiting influence anf over 100 will boost. more testing for me to do I quess

But if the input to the device is too "hot" for the analogue line input stage, then the digital level control (1-127) will merely make a lower-level recording of the distorted input. Usually thought there's some means of externally lowering the input level, eg by using a headphone output or in the case of a mixer, just lowering the master fader (depending on the mixer design). Or use a Tandy/Radio Shack headphone volume control inline, as suggested below.

Firmware update could alter the digital gain structure but not the analogue - which would probably not be a useful change for this purpose.

Shaggy, interesting if that's the case, because it conflicts with the information GaryB from BSW received when he contacted Zoom about the line-in level control:

"I contacted Zoom to confirm the operation with a line input.

The 3-position input gain slider on the side of the unit is disabled when using a line-level input. But the Rec Level controls are fully functional.

I agree that the wording in the instruction sheet is not very clear.

gb"

Gershon,

I think you meant to direct your comment at Shaggy. I never mentioned firmware.

Joshua,
Do you really think that a firmware update can change the function of the 0-127 gain control? Wouldn't that be already rigged a certain way with the internal wiring and unchangeable? That would be pretty nice if you're right though!

Thanks Shaggy. I also asked Zoom the question last week but they haven't responded.

Joshua,

I will verify again tonight but as I recall when I fed some music from my portable mp3 player into the line input the
were disabled and I had to adjust via my player's volume control.

There are reports that the line-level input may be on the sensitive side and not all external line-out devices have
output level control. In my case it was my MP3 player headphone
output I fed in and was able to adjust.

The L-M-H adjusts the gain of int & ext microphone
pre-amplifier and that the
adjust control of the A/D Converter .. probably manipulating bits & bites as apposed to ang analog singnal level...

I would think a Zoom Firmware Fix for this s/b possible.

It would be cool if Zoom or some 3rd party can offered software
that one could use to set-up their own custom recorder functions

I will test again tonight and also forward this comment to Zoom

I'm interested in the H2 mainly for home recording using the line-in jack. On page 24 of the PDF user's manual, under Stereo Mode Recording, it says,

"To record the signal from an external
component such as a CD player connected to
the [LINE IN] jack, control the recording level
by adjusting the volume setting at the external
component."

This worries me, as it leads me to think Zoom is suggesting that for line-in recordings, setting levels doesn't happen on the H2, but rather on the source being recorded. I hope I'm wrong about this. Can someone put my mind at ease, that setting recording levels for line-in as the same as documented here?

"5.
Adjust the recording level.
To adjust the recording level, use the
3
(REW)/
2
(FF) keys. When you press one of
these keys once, the current recording level
setting is shown on the display. Pressing the
key further will change the setting.
Set the level as high as possible but so that the
meter indication on the display does not
exceed 0 (dB) during the loudest passages.
The setting range is 0 - 127."

Thanks!

Best "digital shaver" cast we've done yet with the H2 (as far as showing what it can do). It's 50 minutes of us walking around downtown Ventura, California on the strip on a busy Sunday afternoon, and having lunch with a cool smart chatty gal pal of ours at a sidewalk cafe, and we're commenting on all the noises.

"Clone The Homeless"
http://www.clonethehomeless.com
Episode 51.
Direct MP3 link:
http://www.askdollie.com/cth/Episode-0051-CloneTheHomeless.mp3

got my H2 few days ago.. Very happy with it overall,

Besides reording, it too can be used as an MP3 player.
I loaded some songs into FOLDER02 and it plays them and also displayes the scrolling file name aswell !

Also recorded some music into the line imput with good sound results.

@Marcel:

Does anyone have experiences with either the H2 or H4?

Mark Nelson has reviewed both recorders (plus three more) in depth, including audio examples.

@Michael:

"It's a baby monitor. The baby's in the car."

That’s just wrong. Ha ha! How about, “It’s a new digital shaver.” Then drop your voice and confide, “I have this condition that causes my beard to grow extremely fast, and this is the only thing that can keep up, thanks to its digital motor.”

(That reminds me of visiting a RadioShack in the early ’80s, just after CDs had come out, and seeing some “digital” speakers. I asked the salesman what that meant, exactly, and he explained that traditional analog cones took time to get from point A to point B, whereas digital cones moved there instantly.)

I am also interested in your Zoom H2 vs H4 comparison.
I am looking for a recorder which does pickup the lower frequencies as well, recording
concerts/rehearsals.
(A flaw most condensor mics have is that their frequency spectrum is good
at high and mid).

Does anyone have experiences with either the H2 or H4?

The H4 seems more versatile offering the oppertunity to connect external (high quality)
mics.

Whenever we go out in public and record ourselves with it, people ask us, "What is that thing?" We've gotten bored with saying, "A digital recorder" so we've tried to come up with more interesting answers.

The best we've come up with so far are "a portable defibrillator" and "It's a baby monitor. The baby's in the car."

It's fun.

I received my unit 2 days ago. I think it's going to suit me well. I've been using a Minidisc for many years to record chamber music performances, but my Minidisc doesn't have digital output, so I have to use an analog transfer to my PC to create CDS. This introduces quite a bit of hiss which is why the H2 looked so good.

The H2 on Mid gain can be clipped by very loud brass instruments- even a single horn at 10 feet could max it. I found that adjusting the levels didn't seem to help- the red led would still flicker and it sounded to me like it was distorting in my quick test, even though the volume was reduced. Still, I think it will be ok if the mic is 20-30 feet away with a small brass or mixed group.

One comment on the metronome- the manual doesn't really mention this, but it is only audible when using headphones. There is no speaker in the unit. Not a big deal, I was just thinking I could carry one less box with me.

One thing I really wish they would improve would be the ability for the auto-record function to continually start and stop recording at the thresholds set. Right now, it will record only 1 file, then wait for you to hit the record button again. If it just kept recording new files, it would be fantastic for recording a concert- each piece would be recorded as a separate track (assuming it could also use the pre-record option).

@Ozpeter - all I have is Sound Forge, which tells me
GS500: Peak -56.6, RMS - 96
H2 @ M, 115: Peak -56.3, RMS -96
H2 @ H, 95: Peak -55.8, RMS -96

So it would seem (though I am pretty much totally ignorant about audio stuff) that the higher level of hiss from the H2 has to do with the frequencies present.

Having said all this, at the combination of gain level and the SPL of the recorded sound in the samples, noise ends up being a non-factor, unless you're listening with headphones. I tried listening to the samples through my home stereo (Onkyo consumer amp with KEF speakers)and couldn't hear the noise unless I had the volume cranked up and my ear near the speakers.

I'm going to rerun this weekend recording some classical guitar - that will be more of a noise challenge for both the GS500 and the Zoom.

One of these days I may get around to using the Zoom for a real project :) -- But I'm a big fan of learning how your equipment acts by doing some advance testing instead of "on the job."

Hey, thanks for those interesting samples.

Hmmm. Analysing the noise in Audition shows that the average RMS of the noise in the H2 is actually lower than from the GS500, due to a lot of lower frequency noise in the GS500. Looking at the frequency spectrum of the noise, that of the GS500 cuts off sharply 2kHz below that of the H2 - somehow it's filtering the noise at low level. I agree that the H2 sounds more hissy, but the GS500 seems to be changing its frequency response when the level drops. So, I'm not sure the playing field is that level. Do you have the means to run similar checks at your end? I think a proper analysis would need "A weighting" to compensate for the way the ear hears noise. Very interesting stuff!

See http://www.pixentral.com/show.php?picture=12ZqRgHT2GZFXoYEARV9BoJ3yP20o1 for a screenshot - green is the Panasonic.

Check with GuySonic@aol.com if you want a cable that will attenuate the line-in by 12-15db. He said he still has some $25+5 shipping. Also, couldn't a headphone extension cable with an in-line volume control work the same way?
thanks!
Larry

BarryS, I hope you can check out the high end of the spectrum, I can swear I heard the H2 clipped at slightly lower frequency level there at the high end than the H4 on the samples.

OK, I've updated my post at http://www.pana3ccduser.com/showthread.php?t=17523.

Here are the links to the mp3s mentioned in the post:

Here's the mp3 of a clip of the silence only, in the order: Panasonic GS500; H2 on M, vol 115; H2 on H, vol 95. (I encoded to 320kpbs mp3 from Vegas.)

http://www.nolonemo.com/files/H2_Noise.mp3

Here's a link to an mp3 of -7dB white noise followed by "silence," same sequence.

http://www.nolonemo/files/Noise and Silence.mp3

Here's a link to an mp3, but with the white noise replaced with music at -7dB (note that the music was not recorded with the H2, I just put it in for a common reference point).

http://www.nolonemo.com/files/Music plus silence.mp3

@Oz--Ok, I got you--look forward to your tests. I have some ragtag stuff I've looked at in SoundForge that confirms what been going around on the H2. I do find the H2 a little boomy and from some spectral analysis I'd say a little low-end EQ is in order. I usually do a fair amount of post on my stuff, so I'm mainly looking for a good clean recording that hold up after mixing and mastering. So definitely no crime in some EQ and in film/video work, I'm also doing some noise reduction on a regular basis.

@Nolonemo
I used to have a DVX100 and it also had a really excellent audio subsystem for a camcorder. If you can run in through an SD302 or other high quality mixer, it's even better. I don't see any problem cutting H2 recordings with DVX100 audio. I'm planning on getting an HVX200 soon and I think the H2 material will also intercut ok.

Ozpeter: Here's a link to my post about H2 noise tests in another forum:
http://www.pana3ccduser.com/showthread.php?t=17523

I'll update the post in the link tonight to add a clip that has both the white noise (though it's -7dB, not 0)
and the "silence."

Hi, and thanks for all the good info written on this unit.

I am looking into this device with much interest, and intend to mainly use it as a field recorder with my OKM Soundman Binaural Mics. Now, based on what some of you have said it looks like the line in levels / sensitivity is a problem ? Can someone please summarize this for me based on their experience.

Also, are there alternatives that would provide similar / better results for this application at a similar price bracket ?

Thank you.

Sorry, yes, I wasn't being clear - it's the noise aspect, source of chief criticism, that I was thinking about. Personally I didn't find it that big a deal in this recording (something going on though) but it was rather hard to tell with no worthwhile pauses in the performance - and did the recordist know how to set it up for best results?

To get a good idea of the H2's self-noise I'd want to hear five seconds of something peaking (tone? white noise? music from speakers?) to zero and then five seconds of silence (H2 buried under blankets in quiet room!), at each of the H2 mic sensitivity settings and at a recording level of 100. I'd do the same kind of tests with a good self-powered stereo mic into its mic inputs, and repeat under carefully repeated conditions with an RH-1. I spend a lot of time thinking about what I'm eventually going to do - must get a life!

I'd guess that the H2 mic capsules are Panasonics or similar which I believe can be obtained for about $10 by you and I, and which are often used by people like Naiant to make small, low cost, remarkably good mics. (Dunno whether that's actually what Naiant use and I'm guessing about the H2). But my point is to agree that, with careful listening, you'd always be able to pick out a more classy mic. But for casual listening or listening with no comparator, and perhaps with the benefit of some EQ, I'm getting the impression that the H2 could turn out some quite respectable recordings. No shame in applying EQ to a low cost mic - eg the Rode NT4 in my experience needs a lot of help at the bottom and a lot of taming at the top to provide an acceptable sound. And then it's fine. But costs more than the whole H2, again!

@Oz Not sure what you're getting at re the H2 setup. How would that change the conclusion that the the H2 doesn't equal the quality of an HD-P2 + NT1-A's, but it still sounds pretty good--enough to confuse some blinded listeners? Let's say the H2 wasn't optimally set up--wouldn't that confirm the same conclusion?

I wouldn't expect the H2 to equal the HD-P2 + NT1-A's under any circumstances--the HD-P2 is very highly regarded and the NT1-A's are studio condensers marketed as having extremely low noise. I'm surprised that *any* semi-experienced listeners would consider the H2 equal or better--regardless of the settings. Skip's right, the setup isn't really "fair", but that's the beauty--the H2 sounds comparably good even without external mics or possibly at non-optimal settings.

So let's say he ran the NT1-A's with a phantom power box into the H2 to be more fair. The H2 recording would probably be a bit better, but I still don't think it would match the HD-P2. I certainly don't think it would sound worse that what we heard.

Hard to draw firm conclusions without knowing a lot more about how the H2 was set up - I don't think anything was said about recording format and input level used etc. Perhaps this test gives rise to more questions than answers!

Once I get my hands on an Hi shall be able to do some really serious testing against alternative devices, esp the RH-1 Hi-MD with sundry external mics (and the H2's own). A test with a pro orchestra in a large concert hall may even be possible. I should be able to include the Rode NT-4 in the tests - which comes with a suitable lead anyway. It's actually a mic that I really don't like - it will be interesting to see how it compares with the H2's own. The Australian distributor tells me that they should have the H2 in around a week's time.

To each his/her own. But I think his test was a little unreasonable. He probably should have run the NT1-As into a little Beachtek or something.. and on into the H2 if he's comparing setups that would require carrying extra mics, cables ,etc. Like you said, and I agree.. the fact the two recordings compare favorably but the cheaper one (by $1200) also fits into your pocket... well.. I know which one I'd take. :-)

Skip - he mentions in a later post that he did indeed have the low-cut turned on.

I think the two samples compare favourably, especially when one considers the size and price of the Zoom. As BarryS mentions, the other setup is considerably more expensive, and certainly not pocket-sized.

First of all... his H2 doesn't sound bad. Second, had he used the front two mics with the 90deg pattern, AND turned on the low-cut on the H2.. he would have got a MUCH better recording.

He says he's unloading his H2 on ebay. Someone who's thinking of buying one should snatch it up before he figures out he just didn't record it properly. ;-)

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.audio.pro/browse_thread/thread/70eec5ea0acb910d/7fdd5edf7e5af0e9?lnk=st&q=zoom+h2&rnum=3&hl=en#

Here's an interesting comparison of the H2 vs the Tascam HD-P2 fed by a pair of Rode NT1-A's. These audio fanatics can't even agree on which setup sounds better. :) The H2 clearly has more noise, but I think the recording still sounds pretty good for a solo classical guitar piece. The NT1-A's are large condenser studio mics and with the HD-P2, that setup runs around $1400-$1500. So I think the H2 hits it out of the park to be reasonably comparable for $200.

Yah, I think the MP3 re-encoding function is in the same class as the other post function like normalizing and splitting--primitive and semi-functional.

... let me clarify that the "chirp" I heard was NOT any any of the source recordings at any settings. Not even mp3. ONLY when using the H2s onboard processing to re-encode source files to mp3.

@ BarryS,

Oh yes.. I DID have that "chirp" sound but it was ONLY after I'd already done a 24bit recording and tried the onboard re-encoding to mp3. Didn't do it if I used 16bit. Haven't installed the firmware update yet.. so maybe it's been taken care of already.

I have a pair of Sennheiser 580 headphones I bought a few years ago. They came with this Sennheiser DSPpro gadget that gives you surround in your headphones and you can adjust the front R/L, center, rear R/L. I'm using these on my laptop to test doing a surround mix. So far, the closest I've come is just using Compressor on the Mac. You can assign a sound clip to each of the 5 channels, and it appears to work in the head phones. Doesn't take in WAV files so I have to convert to aiff. I moved one track to each of the 5 regions and it did sound like it moved from area to area in the headset, ie. Front RL, center, and Rear RL. So I guess I would do a 4 channel recording to the H2, split each stereo pair into mono tracks for each of the Fnt RL and Rr RL.. then what to you use for the center? I mono mix of the front stereo pair? Anything for the LFE track?

You can then export out as a 5.1mix in AC3 format. Only problem is I can't mix or pan anything. Tried in Soundtrack by setting up 4 outputs and assigning a track to each output.. but when monitoring via Soundtrack with the Sennheiser setup.. I wasn't getting the rear tracks. Only with Compressor.

Might have to just try the latest version of Soundtrack. I read Apple made doing 5.1 mixes much easier in the new version.

The H2 will distort like any recorder if you overload the levels. Other than that, there's no problem. The "chirping" is an artifact related to MP3 recording and I've only heard of one person with this issue. The H2 can be used with external condenser XLR plug mics with a simple adapter (XLR>1/8' mini stereo) as long as phantom power is supplied. In the case of a mic like the NT4, phantom can be supplied by an internal battery. Mics that aren't self-powered would need a phantom power box between the mic and the H2.

I think the H2 is great for field recording unless your needs are very critical. The internal mics are good quality and the biggest issue is dealing with handling noise, If you can mount the H2 to a stand or be very careful handholding it, it works very well.

@ thomas

I've haven't had any problems with distortion or "chirping" at all. I've connected an ME66 Senheiser, and Rode NT2 and NT3 (not an NT 4) but the Rodes sounded great. The mics I've tested are all self phantom powered. I'm using a Line-matching-transformer cable from XLR to mono mini.. but I think it'd be better with an standard 1/8" stereo plug. I get some boost in signal using the LMT but I'm not completely convinced its necessary. Am going to pick up a standard XLR to 1/8" TRS plug today.

Also.... anyone know of a plugin for the Mac to use with Soundtrack for 5.1 mixing? I think I got pretty close the other day by using Soundtrack to lay out my tracks, then export using Compressor as a 5.1 format. Doesn't seem to be a way to joystick between the channels though. And it sounded more or less all mixed together without separation.

Hi all.
I am just about to order the H2. I am going to use it exclusively for field recordings.
I don't want to record in mp3 format and all of my reocrdings will be in .wav.
I have read many things around the net, including some complaints of distortion and chirping sounds. Also it might be possible to use an external mic pugged to it.
1) Does anybody know if there is a way to plug a mic with an xlr output (rode NT 4 e.g) to this recorder. I suppose not...
2) Do you reccomend this at last for field recording use?

thanx in advance

Hello,

Has anyone recorded a file longer than 2GB in the H2?

I saw that Gershon has an 8GB card. Are you still limited to only 2GB of continuous recording?

Thanks,
PhillipS

@Guy: Be careful there! The Bidule guys and I are all from Montreal! ;-)

ah! french and cold--perfect for my next vacation! but leonard cohen--the best songwriter of all time is from there--so i'll refrain from further attempted murder of french epithets!

this bidule app is just spooky. stuff just flies around and appears and disappears seemingly entirely separate from my intended actions. i just watch in amazement as windows fly open and shut as if poltergeists were embedded inside. [g]

first i placed your patch into the layout directory where the other .bidule files were. i started up bidule and could not find it. then i did an import on the file and all of a sudden a window appeared with the file player.

when i attempt to open the h2 .wav files it give me a header error, however. 'can not open file header ...'.

i appreciate the patience. if you ever have to do tech support i will serve as your lowest common denominator. it can't get any lower ... [g]

well, off to bed and a couple of 12-hours shifts ahead of me. i'll dive back in on friday since i don't have a mac at work.

thanks again.

/guy

@Guy: Be careful there! The Bidule guys and I are all from Montreal! ;-)

Here's a link to the bidule patch: http://www.radio.uqam.ca/ambisonic/zoom2five_player-recorder.zip . Once the patch loaded in Bidule, double-click on the file player, load your file. Optionally replace the stereo built-in audio out device with a multichannel one that you have handy. Record the output of the Zoom2Five (create a new file) in the file recorder.

Bidule is really powerful, but you have to explore it...

Hey, for those of you on Macs with QuickTime Pro, OS 10.4, four speakers, and an extra audio interface (even a basic stereo one), here's how to hear the H2 tracks in surround. I'll write this up in more detail in an upcoming blog, but here's the gist:

1. Create an aggregate audio output device in Audio MIDI Setup. I made a virtual 4x4 interface using my Mac's line output and an Edirol USB interface I had lying around.
2. Assign the four outputs to L, R, Ls, and Rs in Audio MIDI Setup.
3. Open the front and rear H2 WAV files in QuickTime Pro.
4. Copy the rear file and do an "Add Scaled" paste to the front file.
5. Hit Command-J; you'll see two tracks called Soundtrack 1 and Soundtrack 2. Assign the latter to Ls and Rs.
6. Plug your front speakers into your Mac and your rear speakers into your audio interface and hit Play.

Again, I'll write this up with screenshots tomorrow or Thursday.

daniel, you'd die laughing if you saw me thrashing around here. i'm in so far over my head you need to write me off as a bad investment of your time.

i did install bidule and got far enough in the tutorial to create a default workspace with your plugins showing. both the one in au and the one in vst seem identical although one is appended '0' and the other '1'.

now here is where it gets funny. leaving aside my distaste at a developer that would provide a time-limited demo _and_ assault you with frequent irritating popups reminding you it's a demo, i'm unable to discover that this program is interested in anything other than real time midi.

/file/open/ and /file/import/ have no options for opening audio files. the /load/ button on your plugin wants some sort of .fbk or .fbx file. i painstakingly clicked my way through the pallet options and found nothing that looked like it would import my files.

but finally i find my way to the 'media pool' window. aha, says i! finally at last, an /add file(s)/ button. so i hit it and pointed it to my h2 .wav file(s).

___ not an audio file ___ this french program that seems like it should have been left in the bidet blandly proclaims. bleh! mon dieu! merde!

so the tabs at the top of the rectangle representing your plugin on the bidule pallet represent inputs, right? so why can't i click or right click on one of those input tabs and pull in or point to a track to that input? absent any kind of import function that's the only thing that would make any sense to me in this morass swamp of options.

didn't mark promise to tell us in his review how to burn a multi-channel dvd? i suspect i'll have to wait to see what he says. but if you're willing to reveal to me the next step in this procedure, i promise to at least keep trying. at least i can now see into the guts of your plugin. am i needing your patch for this to make sense perhaps?

/guy

@Guy: The apps where I can "guarantee" the results are Cubase, Nuendo and Plogue Bidule. Although Amadeus Pro supports AU and VST plug-ins, its support for multichannel plug-ins is... non-existent. AP will only process two channels at a time: not good when all the channels are related and depend on each other for successful processing. Don't try to use SonicBirth for file processing: its an app to create tools, not for using them...

In the meantime, I'm trying to get better multichannel effect support from Audiofile Engineering's Wave Editor (an app similar to AP): we'll see where that leads us in the next few weeks.

Download and install Plogue Bidule. I'll send you a Bidule patch for the Zoom2Five processing if needed.

@daniel: sorry, should have tried stuff before i posted. i installed the framework and put the component and vst files in the appropriate directories. and amadeus recognizes them.

but what amadeus shows me is nothing like the image on your web site. i get virtually no options and only a preview and apply buttons. i tried the 'apply' and whatever it did, it appeared to only operate on 1 track of my 4 track file.

as the docs say, sonicbirth seems to be a creation tool and doesn't much like my attempts to open or import those plugins. [g]

/guy

daniel@: i really appreciate the work you've put into this project although i barely understand any of it. but i'm trying to drag myself up by my bootstraps towards my modest goal of burning a multi-channel cd/dvd that will play on a ht a/v system. if i get that far i'll tackle how to sync the soundtrack to a video file.

did you say these plugins won't work with amadeus pro? i'm trying to remember what apps i have that support vst plugins. i think i got cubase le with a guitar workstation and i can try that. i have some other similar apps i've received with other music devices over the years.

i downloaded some plugins from the amadeus page and the readme says to install them into: /Library/Audio/Plug-Ins/Components/.

is that the right place for your plugins and do i need to install the sonicbirth framework first?

thanks,

/guy

reporting another incident of card flakiness. i came across a forgotten 4gb transcend sd (150x, not sdhc) card today and replaced the 4gb transcend sdhc card which i've been using with the one i'd found.

note that neither of these cards is on the approved list, but the sdhc card has worked perfectly and will (now) format inside the h2.

the 'loading' timer churned away for over a minute before the operating screen appeared. and i was unable to format the card.

but note that the first time i put the sdhc card into the h2 i was unable to format it either. it was only after i had changed out several cards that suddenly the transcend sdhc card would start formatting.

as far as i can tell, formatting a card in the h2 is not strictly necessary and all the half-dozen or so cards i've tried have functioned correctly on short tests.

/guy

Re date and time, See page 49 and 50 of the manual. I'm not clear whether this info gets written to the BWF chunk of wave files too.

Could anyone explain to me how the vaunted "timestamp" feature works on the Zoom H2?

Is there an internal separate header or track in the file that has date/time information?

All I see is the "date modified" information next to the file name. (I am recording in MP3 mode)

Has anyone compared the H2 to Fostex MR8 or comparable unit using 4 channel mode?
Jack

I'm really good at sounds, and on the sample, I did notice the sound difference between the H2 and H4. The H2 had a stronger bass (not necessarily the better because it all depends on the overall sound balance) but the highest end seemed to have clipped off at lower frequency level than the H4 which extended slightly more at the high end of the frequency.

A quick comment to mention that my Zoom2Five transcoder plug-in has now its own web page: http://www.radio.uqam.ca/ambisonic/zoom2five.html

Many thanks to everyone who posted here! Particularly, many thanks to Ken for clarifying the line-in levels.
And a big thanks to Ozpeter for the Headphone Out idea. I think that will solve my radio station problem. Although not an ideal solution, it's probably acceptable, as you said.

To Zoom - I think it would be really nice if the sensitivity switch could work for the Line-Input, as well as the Mic Input. As it is now, the Line-Input is very limited in it's functionality. It would be a cleaner recording if I didn't have to route the signal through a potentiometer first. Could you change that in the firmware? Many thanks

Some Other Notes:
In case there was any doubt, the threads on the bottom are metal, as my magnet confirmed.

It's a bit overkill, but if you're extremely clumsy like me (dropped my H2 three times last night in the night club), check out the Pelican 1010 Micro Case. It's a snug fit & pretty much indestructible. It's very snug as the rubber gasket gives enough to allow the h2 to fit. I see now that Pelican makes one the same size as the 1010, the i1010 which is made for I Pods. It even has a nifty headphone jack on the outside & a small extension lead inside which probably can be used for Line or Mic input (?). If the lead is long enough, you could record with the case closed, after setting the levels, of course. That would save wear & tear on the jacks & might be handy when recording in hazardous environments, like a bear drenched night club. I'd get one, but I'm not sure I can rationalize the $25 expense, as I already have the 1010.

So, I took the H2 to the club where I DJ occasionally, & plugged right into the board. I was plugged into an output that was controlled by a rotary knob. I can't remember the db value, but it had to be dialed down to the 3 O'clock position. Probably -15db...
The end result was pretty good. It was a Reggae show: Yellowman. If anyone is interested in hearing a clip, I could email it if you drop me line: LHacken@mcn.org.... It might take me a few days though.

In addition to the line-in, I also did a short test of the mics, by walking up to the stage with the H2. Even though it's a small club, I quickly realized it was a mistake. I was slammed by a dancer & I watched the H2 fly through air in horror. I had already dropped it twice before, (I have a numbness issue with 2 of my fingers), & I can't find even the slightest scratch! The worse drop was from the collision with the dancer & the only thing that happened was the SD card door came open & the card had popped out. It rebooted itself & all is fine.
thanks again,
Larry

According to a Sweetwater staffer, the H4 and H2 mics are the same.

See http://mefeedia.com/entry/3423836/ for a comparison (well, hear).

i haven't made that many recordings with my new h2 yet, just short tests mainly and playing with trying to get a surround track so i can use it with my hd camera.

but i can't help compare the recordings with my h4 and for the purpose i used the h4--recording my fiddle and acoustic guitar--i think the h4 has better quality. this is just my opinion and i don't have good hearing anymore as proven by me having to use an electronic tuner for my fiddle!

but offsetting my opinion of the higher quality of the h4 is that the h4 has to be mounted horizontally, facing the instrument on a level with the soundhole(s) and approx 12-24" away. couple this with the rube-goldberg velcro/tray/tripod arrangement and it was hardly the work of a minute or two to set up for recording.

the h2, otoh, can be placed on the lip of a music stand or on its little plastic feet on a desk and deployed quite quickly. and ride in a quite small pocket.

so, can anyone explain the orientation that the new menu items 'player' and 'listener' represent? are these terms the equivalent of 'performer' and 'recordist' perhaps? what setting should i use so that the filenames of the front and rear soundfields will match?

thanks,

/guy

I have the H4 and am wondering how the H2's mikes compare in quality to the H4. I would also like to know if when using external mikes, if the H2 works as well as the H4 (I am assuming that an external mike preamp is being used). Also, I downloaded the H2 manual and there is a section that deals with data overload ! It makes it sound as if you can set the H2 in certain modes in which it cannot properly handle the audio information. I would be curious to know if anyone has experienced this. Maybe there are some mike modes that have problems if you use too high a resolution.

Thanks again, BarryS. I liked the reverbs I heard on some sample recordings of Edirol R09 so I just thought it'll be nice to have them on the H2 also. But well, there are many ways to add reverbs with the computer, though so far I've never liked any of them, including the ones on Audacity. Anyone who knows the best freeware program that has a good reverb program, please let me know.

No reverb Dan, and if it was there, it would be cheese. :)

I think nobody mentioned about the 'reberb.' Since there was a mention of 'effects' below, I'm encouraged to ask: does the H2 has any reberb mode?

There are several link-heavy comments stuck in quarantine; I'll append them to this message. — David

Name: Daniel Courville
URL: http://www.ambisonicstudio.com
Comments:

@David and Mark
I don't know what sound editor apps you're using, but I would like to know if you're successful with my plug-ins. I made them for Nuendo/Cubase and I must say that I haven't found an affordable multichannel sound editor where they work, in AU or VST. Amadeus Pro seems to work, but in fact the output of the plugs in Amadeus Pro is a mix of pre-process and post-process. The output should be post-process only of course. Audiofile Engineering's Wave Editor doesn't work at all with my plugs.

An app where my plugs do work, in both AU and VST, is Plogue Bidule. Bidule is not a sound editor, but a modular audio production environment. Quite interesting, and from Montreal like me... I made a Bidule patch that uses my plugs for processing the signal of the H2. It looks like this http://www.radio.uqam.ca/ambisonic/images/zoom_bidule.png . I added some Waves plugs to control the final levels and add dither. The Bidule patch is available here http://www.radio.uqam.ca/ambisonic/zoom_surround_stereo.zip .

Hopefully, Amadeus Pro and Wave Editor will improve their support for multichannel files and plug-ins...

Name: ThornDaddy
URL: http://www.askdollie.com
Comments:

Another half-hour H2 recording up now:
"Clone The Homeless"
Michael W. Dean's podcast
http://www.clonethehomeless.com
Episode 50.
Direct MP3 link
http://www.askdollie.com/cth/Episode-0050-CloneTheHomeless.mp3
It's us walking and talking and lots of crickets and cars and leaves crunching under foot. Great stereo walking tour of Southern California at night.

Name: Ozpeter
Comments:

Google reveals all sorts of stuff. Buy the cable from someone who understands the exact requirement. You want one that will correctly unbalance the balanced mic and feed it to the left and right channels of the H2 using a TRS (stereo) mini connector.

http://forums.minidisc.org/index.php?showtopic=17951&pid=114780&st=0&#entry114780

http://msrpk.com/adapters.htm

http://www.minidiscaccess.com/item.html?PRID=1386387

My response from Samson Product Specialist for Zoom H2

You cannot pause recordings using the H2.
The input gain selector adjusts the gain structure of the H2.
The recording level control attenuates or boosts the signal after the preamp gain structure.
________________________________________

To: support@samsontech.com
Subject: I plan to purchase , but please can you clarify some of the functions..

I plan to purchase , but please can you clarify some of the functions that are not clear in the manual..

there has been a lot of review chatter regarding some of the recording functions etc..

- Can you pause & continue a recording event ?
it seems that this is not possible as a new file is created after any interruption in recording.

- Please can you explain the functionality of the input level controls for recording..
it seems that adjustment below 100 the signal level limited ( not attenuated )
and that adjustment above 100 the signal level is increased via amplifier gain

These are important parameters that are common with other recorders and perhaps
H2 firmware can be upgraded to accommodate the functionality described above.

Just wanted to let you know that I justreceived a Transcend 8GB SDHC card and had no trouble getting it to work first time.

After the first time, from now on it takes 10 seconds from the time I turn on the until until I can record. I have no idea if this will remain the same as the disc fills up.

Set at 44.1kHz/16bit it will record for 12:41
Set at 44.1kHz/24bit it will record for 8:27

Set for recording to mp3 the sky is the limit
373:06 at mp3 48kbps (I believe that's over 15 1/2 days of recording!)
55:57 at mp3320kbps (2 1/3 days of recording)
and many levels of compression in between)

Here's a link for the Zoom2Five plug-in on the Zoom Forum:
http://www.2090.org/zoom/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=9573&sid=4ce8f168edce82386e955d2e61f1c1d4

I've been experimenting with some of the H2 internal processing options and have a couple of observations.

Limiters--I'm a little stumped here, because there are three modes (general/concert/studio), and I can't see any big differences between the modes and don't see much of an effect--period. I'll need to do some further testing, but so far, the limiter functions don't look very useful.

Compressors--The compressor modes (general/vocal/drum) definitely work and it sounds like the general mode applies some heavy compression, because during quiet passages, the noise floor comes zooming up. The vocal mode applies a more gentle compression and seems like the more useful of the two. I didn't try the drum compression but it's likely optimized for loud fast transients.

Random thoughts--

Adding effects "bakes" them into the file, so once you apply the effect, it can't be undone.

The effects are generic--meaning untailored to your particular recording.

The effects are relatively crude compared to the the options available in sound processing software (e.g., multiband compression).

Zoom includes zero explanation of how the effects are applied.

I'd advise caution when using effects in the H2. If you want a quality recording, I'd just try to get a nice clean 24-bit WAV file with peaks around -6 db and take care of processing in your software. The advantage is the ability of tailoring the effects to your recording, perform more sophisticated processing, and experiment with different parameters while you listen to the changes.

I've just been skimming http://taperssection.com/index.php/board,29.0.html and it looks like a great resource for answers on cable setups - quite a few involving mini to XLR.

@ BarryS,
Thanks for the info. I'll go back to the Low gain setting and skip the limiter.

I tried to post some links to leads but the site here didn't like it. Basically, google for

xlr minidisc

and you'll come up with some useful info and sellers. Make sure whatever you buy is sold for the specific purpose, it, connecting either a mono mic or a stereo mic (as the case may be) to an MD recorder (well, I guess in due course we'l see H2 leads being sold! - though maybe people are listing them for the H4??).

I'd expect the H2 end to be a stereo (TRS) plug. If you connect it using a mono plug I suspect it's not going to give the right result. Some leads will be designed to feed a mono mike to just one channel, others to feed a mono mike to both channels (for a centred image), others to feed two mics for stereo, and others might be intended to feed a balanced XLR to a balanced minijack (technically possible but unusual). So, buy from someone who seems to understand the issues.

@ BarryS,

Cool. I think I'll just pick up a regular XLR to 1/8" stereo cable anyway and use the LMT when necessary. Felt like I could get more consistent results without clipping by using the standard cable.

@ jstiel,

Yes, I did some tests this weekend and was quite pleased with the improvement using low-cut for voice and the internal H2 mics. +1 for low-cut! :-)

As far as having to tell the unit what kind of batteries are being used, I've seen this in other decent quality devices I have. I'm sure it is to calibrate the battery meter and is not a fault with the unit. I can't tell you exactly why though. Maybe someone more technically proficient in batteries can explain.

Here are a few comments about my experience so far with the H2. I am a musician and I bought the H2 to record gigs. I mostly play an upright bass in a piano/bass duo in a restaurant. The first night, recording was not that good. The grand piano sounded terrible and it took a lot of eq in post to get it decent. It was kind of muffled sonically - no presence. The next night, I decided to try it with the low-cut on. Wow, what a difference. Piano is notoriously difficult to mike but the sound quality was quite impressive . Like the evening before, I set the unit on the floor beneath the piano. It needed very minimal eq and sounded quite good even with out it. The gain was at L with the level at 100. It was a little quiet but I had recorded at 48/24 and equalizing it in post was no problem.

I also tried the limiter for a set but it really didn't work, distorting the peak. I'm guessing that it does basically the same thing as reducing the level below 100, if only for a moment. If that's the case, it seems like it would be useless. Maybe someone else can expound on this.

@T-Bone I also see th same issue with the level meters, they seem miscalibrated with NiMH batteries. Maybe Zoom can fix in the next firmware update. As for the distortion you were hearing, I think it was occurring in the H2 despite the limiter. I've found that the limiter functions on the H2 don't seem to help much.

@Skip-- Use whatever cable works better for you. I can say that the ME66 signal is just fine on the H2 without any impedance matching, but if you want to run the mic a little hotter, than use your transformer. Ultimately, I don't think it makes a huge difference. Sorry, I don't have a good self-powered cardioid to recommend--everything I've used requires 48V phantom power. The guys on taperssection should be able to help, though.

Not sure about the line-matching-transformer. I went back to the music store and did more tests using the H2, my Sennheiser ME66, my Shure line-matching-transformer XLR to 1/8'' mono-mini plug... and a Mogami XLR to 1/8" stereo mini.

What I noticed was that my Shure LMT cable seemed "hotter" and sort of crisper. However, I really had to struggle to keep from clipping. Even sudden noises after adjusting the level for the room were clipping. It was a real chore getting a clean recording with no clipping. Didn't use the limiter though.

Then I tried the Mogami. Seemed more even and rarely got clipping. Didn't seem as "efficient" but the sound was slightly more "natural".

I'm still on the fence. Can any of you audiophiles who have a decent mic arsenal and an H2 tell me definitively which cable I "should" be using?

@ T-bone

Yes, I've noticed the same thing. I'm using NiMH 2000mAh. I haven't tested it yet.. but it seemed like it was more acurate just leaving the batt setting at Alkaline.. even for NiMH. Anyone know why you have to tell the H2 what kind of batteries are being used? I think the NiMH setting is definitely bugged.

@Opzeter: I guess I was beaten to the punch with the Acousmodules plug-in... I'm reworking my combo of "Zoom2B" and "B2G" to offer a new plug-in that will be called "Zoom2Five" that will do what the Acousmodules H2Zoo is doing. More on my new plug later today...

@David: There's also a post/comment I made yesterday that's being still "moderated" (maybe because it contained a direct link to a Zip file?) that talked about VST/AU host apps. I'll wait for the post/comment to appear...

I've heard others' recordings for guitar, cello, and banjo, but has anyone tried to record live brass? I've had my H2 for almost two weeks now and I'm still learning how to optimize the recording. The Low setting doesn't push the level meters beyond -18 in my tests and it doesn't seem to capture as many of the frequencies that make it sound "live", so I tried the Mid setting at 44.1 KHz/24 bits with the Limit1 setting. Even though the level meters stay below 0 dB and the mic light does not flash, I hear a buzz when the volume goes up to -12 dB to -6 dB. I don't have a studio so something in the room could be vibrating, or do you think I am hearing distortion? Could the H2 itself be vibrating?

Also, I noticed that the battery indicator never looks Full even with fresh batteries. I am using 2500 mAh NiMH with the NiMH battery setting and freshly-charged batteries only register about 25%. They last several hours, but has anyone else noticed this phenomenon?

I get this when I try to DL.

Not Found

The requested URL /fichiers/surround/H2-Zoo.rar was not found on this server.

Apache/ProXad [May 15 2007 17:32:33] Server at acousmodules.free.fr Port 80

I have a Mac, Soundtrack, Compressor, DVD Studio... can I mix the H2s 4channel into 5.1 with these apps? Or, do I need something else?

Checkout a brand new pluging for surround mixing with H2 files, with tutorial, on the Acousmodules site: -http://www.2090.org/zoom/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=9569&sid=ece51acf47767e231ae6c00df9b29a31

Hey people. Good to see all the helpful comments. I've had my ZOOM H2 for about 5 days now, and for the money I paid for it I am VERY happy with what it does, and with the excellent recordings it makes. I,ve made a few surround recordings and converted them into Windows Media Pro format, so if anyone has some surround sound speakers plugged into their computer I can email you some samples.

Just installed the firmware update without incident. I'm pretty sure all it does is offer a new option to swap the L and R channels, although the PDF explanation sets a new standard for confusion in the English language.

That kind of spaced pair technique has some adherents but does have the disadvantage of putting your head in two places at once. Your own ears don't need to have extensions to capture an accurate sense of the space they are in (interesting mental picture...). If the H2 mics have adequate directional discrimination then I would expect the one-point configuration would give very acceptable results. See my post some way down about possible ways to post-produce H2 double-stereo recordings by varying the effective width and proportion of each stereo pair separately.

Thanks, BarryS. I thought I could make a natural 'ambient'type recording without using electronic reverb, which is usually done by placing main mic in the front, and the other mic few feet back to pick up natural echos. Using the internal mics might not be ideal as they just too close to each other. But I guess I have no choice but to try with them.

Dan- No, plugging in an external mic shuts down input from all the internal mics. But that would be a cool additional mode-the ability to record with an external mic on two channels and assign two other channels to either pair of internal mics (or even both pairs in 2-channel surround mode).

If you plug in external mic, will the rear internal mics still work? Or are they also shut down.

... however, the forums at http://www.2090.org/zoom/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=9542&sid=d413b3763b8543e606c29124457c56ea seem to be taking off now - actually the link is to a discussion that finishes with a load of H2 noise analyses from an audio guy I "know" on the internet whose judgement I respect - and he's impressed.

I suspect you'd get acceptable or even good results by feeding the Zoom line in from the headphone out of other equipment?? And then plugging your headphones into the Zoom instead of the other equipment's headphone socket. In days gone by headphone outputs could be pretty naff but these days there should be no big problem - and hopefully a headphone volume control to get the level just right.

Good to know Zoom are looking over our shoulders - this seems to be the place to be for new H2 owners!

Sorry for the double post, must have hit post twice. The post should read -10dB for consumer level and the resistor values are 4.7k ohm and 1.5k ohm.

The line in of the H2 is designed for consumer line levels, nominal 10dB, while the line outs of the pro equipment is nominal +4 dB. You need a 12 dB pad to drop the output signal. A 4.7ohm resistor and a 1.5 ohm in an L pad will do it. Do not try to use the radio Shack attenuating cable is is designed for microphones and drops the signal about 60 dB.
Ken

First of all, thanks to Anonymous for the link to the case.
Second, my apologies for venting about UPS, as this is not the appropriate forum for that.

Maybe I'm the only one here, but I bought the H2 mostly for it's line-in recording. The mics were an added bonus, i thought. I was waiting for an affordable alternative to MD. Well, I am disappointed to find that the line-in is too sensitive for most of my applications. I was hoping to be able to take it to the radio station & patch into the Audition Outs, but I know I'll get clipping. Of course, there's no easy way to attenuate that signal, without going into the board. So then I tried plugging into the Record Outs of my DJ mixer. Once again, clipping. The only way the H2 is going useful to me, is by using the Booth Monitor outputs because it has a volume control.

What is the reason for the high sensitivity? Is it a mistake, or intentional? Do you think this will be addressed in firmware releases? Are the Edirol & M-Audio Line-ins like this too?

If anyone has any of these answers, I'd be grateful.
If Zoom is reading this, Please fix this problem.
many thanks, Larry

i can confirm that i was unable to apply the update using an sdhc card. filing that with the other generalized sdhc flakiness, i guess.

i pulled an sd card from a calculator and used that. i did not use a/c power and will assume that instruction is a precaution zoom uses for those who would try a firmware update w/o good batteries.

after the update completed i powered off and pulled the sd card and checked it in an external reader. no files were written on it other than the original system.bin file that i copied. so those of you in similar situations should be able to borrow an sd card and, unless you power on the h2 with it, none of the h2 folders should be written to it.

but i'm completely stumped as to the purpose of this update other than to confuse the issue. i have no idea what 'player' and 'listener' mean. and this only looks like it addresses left/right orientation. what about the 4-channel filenames being (seemingly) named in reverse, i.e., the rear mic file has 'f' in the name and the front mic file has 'r' in the name. the changelog doesn't address this latter issue.

/guy

@OzPeter:

Are Zoom reading this discussion and leaping into action?

Yep!

Barry, does that cable feed the mono mic to both channels so it comes up centred? I guess so. I have a lead which came from the Naiant mic site which provides two XLRs in stereo to one minijack, when using mics in pairs (a pair of their MSH-1 omnis works fine using that cable with a Hi-MD recorder - comparison tests with the H2 will be interesting down the track).

Thanks for that response to my cheeky note, David. I'm impressed with your thorough review procedure. I suspect your review will appear before my H2 - word here is that H2's for Australia have been delayed, and neither the distributor nor supplier are responding to emails - huh!

Well, I downloaded the firmware update anyway, and as Mark says, it's important and useful - there's a PDF in the download which explains it. Heh, are Zoom reading this discussion and leaping into action?

Hi all -

First off, I gotta thank every one for the terrific help so far.

Couple quick things: Zoom's system update addresses the reversed left/right stereo issue someone noticed a while back. It makes it possible to set a "listener" position relative to the front and rear of the unit prior to recording so the balance always comes out correctly on playback. That's a very good thing.

I ran some 4 track files through the Vortex encoder. Tho' I needed to create dummy files to send to the center and LFE channels in order to encode at 5.1 DTS - otherwise it worked like a charm. Thanx for the tip, Daniel!

I'll download and try Daniel's plug-ins over the weekend.

I'll include some 4 track samples with the review as well as tips on jury-rigging a playback system so you can try it at home.

But Barry is dead on: surround mixing ain't all that easy and takes more than just a bunch of speakers and a joystick.

Onward!

Mark

Larry - Try this for a case. I think Wal-Mart carries an earlier version. It is nicely padded - has a semi-hard shell and will hold two spare batteries and maybe an SD card but not the AC power supply.

http://www.caselogic.com/medium_digital_camera_case/product_detail/index.cfm?modelid=57060

@Daniel: Thanks for creating the decoder plug-in! Mark just sent me some four-channel H2 thunderstorm recordings, so your timing is perfect. Can’t wait to check this out.

@OzPeter:

So when and where is Mark Nelson's review going to appear?

This month; Mark is still conducting amazing new tests based on everyone's comments here.

We typically publish new audio features on Thursdays, but I always run reviews past the manufacturer first for fact-checking, which adds a few days to the process. The review will show up first on our home page, http://digitalmedia.oreilly.com. I'll add a link here as soon as we publish. Thanks for your contributions!

@David (and everybody else...): The deed is done. I have made a new "Zoom2B" plug-in that will transcode the surround output of the H2 (front pair at 90 degrees and rear pair at 120 degrees) to what is called "horizontal first order B-Format": three channels labelled "WXY".

The output of the Zoom2B is not speaker ready. It must be decoded to either stereo with the Stereo2B plug-in or 5.0/5.1 surround with the B2G plug-in. The complete set of plug-ins is available at http://www.radio.uqam.ca/ambisonic/b2x.html in Audio Unit and VST versions, Mac OS X.

BarryS, I'm glad to hear that, since the Senn's impedance is the same as my AT822 (200 ohms), and there has been talk of poor external mic performance because of impedance mismatch with the pres. (My H2 doesn't arrive until next week, so I haven't been able to try.)

I got my Hosa XLR>1/8" mini stereo cable yesterday and tested out my Sennheiser ME66 shotgun with the H2. I'm happy to report that the levels were just fine at a medium gain setting--pretty comparable to the internal mics. So, this looks like a very useable combo for recording dialogue for film/video work. At the low and mid gain levels, the noise floor is fine, at the high setting it starts to be a little intrusive.

So when and where is Mark Nelson's review going to appear - or have we happy band of enthusiasts (and in some cases, owners...) done the job for him?? :)

@Guy: The Vortex Surround Encoder is $50. Apple Compressor is an app part of the Final Cut Studio package. Compressor is a professional video and audio encoder. Since my workplace is full of Final Cut Pro editing stations, I have easy, and free, access to Compressor. But, supposedly, one can use ffmpeg, also a video and audio encoder, to encode to Dolby Digital AC3. I haven't tried it myself.

@David: I would try the files out the H2 as is, with a simple 4.0 DD or DTS encoding. You would be surprised as to how few HT installations strictly follow the ITU recommendations for speaker angles. So making a 4.0 CD/DVD directly from the H2 is actually the easiest way, and maybe the best way, around this whole problem.

My Quad2B plug-in is set for 90 degrees front and back. Hey... Maybe I'll do a transcoder plug-in just for the H2...

As for the role of the Lfe channel, personally I'd leave it empty (the "e" in Lfe is after all for "effect"). Any modern and properly setup HT system have "bass management" that will take care of sending an appropriate signal to the subwoofer.

@Franz
I haven't noticed any "whistling" noise at any sampling rate or bit depth with my H2. I did go through three H4's trying to find a good one, and one had noticeable hum that changed pitch depending on the sampling rate (only on battery power).

Samson is sort of misleading when they casually mention "converting" 4 channels into 5.1 surround. Most films mixed down to 5.1 start with many mono tracks that are mixed down to different channels and sometimes panned between channels. So there are two phases--mixing all your tracks down (or up in this case) to 6 channels and creating a 5.1 sound file like a Dolby Digital AC-3 file. The second phase is straightforward, but the mixing is more complicated and many decisions have to be made.

With the two stereo pairs from the H2, you still need to decide what, if anything, you want to put in the center channel and what you plan on routing to the LFE channel, which usually handles frequencies below 150 Hz. You could run each track through a low-pass filter to skim the low end and mix that down to a single track for the LFE, or you might just do the same to a single track. Then you might decide if you want to roll off the low end of the non-LFE tracks, so your mix isn't too boomy. Home surround systems may be set may shunt all the lows to your sub regardless of the 5.1 mix. So it can get a bit complicated. My main point is that it will take a bit of experimenting to create a good surround mix.

I normally use Sony Vegas+Architect for this kind of work, because it allows a lot of control over audio tracks and can handle 5.1 mixes, but it's not an inexpensive solution. I'd look for a program that gives you some control over assigning tracks and panning between channels in order to create something that sounds good on your system with your source material.

@Daniel: Thanks again for the disc-burning walkthrough. The part I'm still wondering about — which is why I've been looking at your plug-ins — is what sonic manipulations are necessary to translate the H2's unique 90° x 120° recordings into a standard 5.1 playback setup, in which the speakers are at different angles. I was assuming one could use the Width slider in your plug-ins to compensate, but maybe that's not necessary.

@daniel: many thanks! your short post was much more understandable information than i found with hours of google search. i was confused by the amadeus export options into thinking that just because you couldn't select 4 channel that it wouldn't save in 4 channels. so i am one step further along now in at least having a 4 channel in one aiff file.

the bottleneck still seems to be that none of the mac apps (toast, visual hub, imovie or idvd will keep those 4 tracks and let you export or burn them. i took my 4-channel aiff file and burned a dvd using toast music dvd option and the procedure seems to have mixed it down to regular stereo by the time it got to my dvd player.

the two apps you mentioned (apple compressor & vsencodermac) seem to be pro apps and i have found no prices of either one. i'm trying to do this for under $40 if possible. apple compressor seems to be a plug-in for final cut pro which i have no interest in buying. i even went to the dts homepage, but their tools are for studio professionals. you'd think they would supply some sort of free or lite product just to get more people familiar with their process as it already seems as if they are falling out of favor judging from the dvds i buy that more and more lack a dts track.

i did download the demo of vsencodermac but i'm always reluctant to install demo package files after adobe's drm/copyright protection once killed my ethernet interface. macromedia once did exactly the same. b@st@rds ...

any idea what vsencodermac costs? if it's more than $50-100 i'm not even going to bother with the demo.

/guy

I'd be more interested in the surround aspect if I had four or even five speakers to replay it with!

For me, the interest will lie in using the four mics to reproduce the sound of a performance (or whatever) in the context of the acoustic in which it occurs, which can be quite effectively done in a stereo mix.

For instance, download "voxengo msed" freeware vst effect. Put the front stereo pair on track one of your DAW and the rear pair on track two. Add the msed effect to the two channels, set to "inline" mode. This works (internally) by simply converting the X/Y audio to Mid Side - the effect's mid and side knobs then allow you to emphasise the imaginary frontwards mic or the imaginary sideways mic - then internally converts back to X/Y again.

So you can now vary, in effect, the angle between the mics which started off at 90 degrees and 110 degrees respectively. Playing around with the width of front and back, and their respective overall levels, should give you the ability to achieve some very tailored 360 degree mic patterns.

You could I think take it further (if I could lay hands on an H2 I could try it myself!) - if you use the technique above you could turn the side signal of the front facing pair to nothing, leaving it as if it were a front facing mono mic, and turn the mid signal at the rear to nothing, leaving a kind of figure of 8 pattern. Now without experimenting myself, I'm not clear whether one would also have to fiddle with the phase of the imaginary figure of 8 pair, but you'll probably realise that what I'm suggesting is converting the four mic array to the equivalent of an MS mic, as in the original design! What you'd do is then send the output from track one and the output from track two to a third track (a bus if you like) on which you'd have another instance of MSED running, except in decode mode, so that it decoded the MS you'd created on tracks one and two. Or you could simply have that third instance of MSED on your master track, depending on how your DAW works.

If this sounds like gibberish, wait till I get mine, then I can post a Reaper project file (a small size file) somewhere all set up and ready for these kinds of manipulations. Reaper takes about a minute to download and install to then run the project file with your own audio.

@Guy

Amadeus Pro can save multichannel files into its proprietary format and also AIFF, WAV and FLAC.

As for the info on my website, it was never meant as a "beginner's guide to surround", it is for people with a working knowledge of the Ambisonic technology. So yes, it can be absolute Chinese...

That being said, once you have a surround recording, you can easily make a DTS-CD by using the Vortex Surround Encoder and a audio CD burning software or a Dolby Digital DVD using Apple Compressor and video DVD burning software.

CD: Take your 44.1 kHz mono files (4 or 5 of them), put them into Vortex Encoder in the DTS mode. It will output a WAV file that is in fact a container for a DTS stream. If you listen to that file, it will sound like white noise: it is the normal "sound" of an undecoded DTS stream. Burn the WAV file with an audio CD burning app. Put the CD in a CD/DVD player that's digitally connected to a surround processor/receiver of a home theater installation. The DTS decoder in the HT will do the rest.

DVD: Take your 48 kHz mono files mono files (4 or 5 of them), put them in Apple Compressor (or similar) in Dolby Digital mode. It will output an AC3 file. That AC3 must be "linked" to a video stream (it can be a simple black image). Roxio Toast makes that step very easy by providing a "Music DVD" mode. Option-drag your AC3 file to the Toast Music DVD window. Toast will create a menu for the DVD and video stream for each track (AC3 file) by creating a static image that acts as the video stream. Once the DVD is burned, again DVD player into HT receiver and enjoy!

@daniel: i actually read through the information at that site. it was absolutely and completely babble to me. is there no way that information could be condensed to a list of materials and a workflow for those of us without any codec knowledge who just want to find a way to listen to our new 4 channel recordings or burn a 4.0 or 5.1 soundtrack to dvd?

thanks,

/guy

tks for those who keep suggesting surround processing apps. i haven't yet tried any windows or linux ones. the solution might be found in that latter os after all, perhaps command-line driven. i found one reference that used linux but i didn't have the patience to read through several pages of binary builds and shell commands.

i did find that amadeus pro will take the h2 files and easily split the two files into 4 tracks which even have dropdown labels for front right, front left, back right and back left. very promising, but then none of the export options let you save the resulting file as anything other than stereo. as a further tease, the recording input options (when you record directly into the mac via line-in or microphone) include 2x2 and even 2x2+1 (for 5.1). but even if you could somehow hook the h2 into the mac linein and play the surround files, you still couldn't get the file out of amadeus.

the fraunhofer apps i mentioned earlier will allow you to create a ?pseudo? 5.1 file and convert stereo to 5.1 and vice versa, but i don't have my mac plugged into any 5.1 device and can find no way to export the resulting file anywhere useful. their player also claims to output 5.1 to headphones.

on another topic, the gent who complained about front/rear, left/right being juxtaposed may have a point. one of the surround recordings i made yesterday while testing had the name 'sr001f.wav', but this file contained the sound from the rear (non-display) mic and 'sr001r.wav' had the sound from the display side of the h2. i mean, i'm assuming that 'f' and 'r' on those files indicates the front and rear mics. has no one else noticed this? i haven't gone far enough to find out if left/right match up, but surely some of you guys playing with external mics would have found out any problems there.

/guy

Anybody noticed the whistling noise yet (peaks at approx. 3, 4.5 and 6kHz) when recording at 96 kHz from internal batteries (int. mikes, high gain)? It seems to disappear when the H2 is powered externally and to become less audible at lower sampling rates. I read about such a noise with the H4 - is it a similar behavior?

@Daniel: Big thanks for the clarification — and for running such an informative site.

I suspect Zoom's WXY terminology is vestigial marketing copy from the days the H2 had three mic capsules instead of four. And I did mean “a lot” when describing your plug-in lineup. I'm looking forward to checking it out.

@ David

Thanks for mentioning my website. Hopefully the "mess" you're talking about means that that there's "a lot"... The techniques and tools suggested on the website suppose that the user have a goog knowledge of the Ambisonic technology. If people wish to use my plug-ins, but don't know anything about Ambisonic, I strongly encourage them to read the Wikipedia entry on the subject http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ambisonic .

Regarding the H2, the Zoom website and the H2 user manual are a bit cryptic as to what mic setup the H2 is exactly using. The "W-XY" moniker correspond to nothing that I know, but if it's in fact "WXY", well we now have an Ambisonic microphone capturing sound in what is called "B-Format". In any case, the H2 outputs audio in speaker-ready form and if somebody wants to convert the H2 four-channel surround into 5.0 or 5.1, you were right about pointing to the combination of the Quad2B and B2G plug-ins (Mac OS only though).

As for the Toast option-dragging thing, it's just that doing it that way will preserve the AC3 file channels as they are. If you don't option-drag, Toast will downmix the 4.0, 5.0 or 5.1 AC3 file to 2.0 (stereo). Basically, Toast will not magically produce a 5.1 mix, but will mess the one you already have if you don't option-drag your AC3 files.

Here are some more samples of the H2.
I love it :-)
http://www.filefactory.com/file/39e271/
http://www.filefactory.com/file/43dae8/
http://www.filefactory.com/file/03097e/
http://www.filefactory.com/file/641ffc/

@Ozpeter

Yes I checked it out but honestly it doesn't look like something I need. It seems like it is geared towards people who want to rip DVD's and include the full surround sound...

What I need is to be able to add ambient sound to my relaxation DVD's and since I already own Adobe production studio CS2 I am already planning to use Audition to combine the files into a 5.1 surround AC3 file that I will then place into my Adobe Premiere projects... Though I admit I will have to pay big time for the AC3 plugin that should have come with Premiere for free.

Anyone know of a cheap Premiere plugin that will allow you to use AC3 files?

I've been away for awhile but read through all the recent comments. I actually did experience a dropout. I know it was a dropout because I saw the write error message on screen as it was happening. Luckily it only happened once and it was only during a test. I was recording 4 channel stereo surround on the highest settings and had the gain set to medium. It was right towards the beginning of my recording session because I still had my eyes on the screen when it did it. I could not reproduce this dropout so I chalk it up to a simple I/O error on the card and not anything performance related. The card I was using is the supplied card, nothing fancy. I have not seen this problem since with numerous recordings so I really think it was just a fluke.

I mentioned http://www.afterdawn.com/software/audio_software/audio_encoders/aud-x_5_1_surround_codec.cfm further down this ever growing discussion - did anyone try it?

I'm interested in the possibility of creating 5.1 surround as well, but it would have to be reasonably quick and easy and inexpensive. I've heard that Nero 7 Ultra Edition includes a product called SoundTrax which will let you edit and encode a dolby digital 5.1 track. Nero 7 goes for about $80 I think, though you can sometimes find great deals on it... I got it for free after a rebate from Fry's. At some point I will need to do a little more research into whether it will do the job for 5.1 surround.

tks david. i forgot to list toast as one app i tried. i even searched the help files of about a dozen apps and not one had a hit on '5.1' or 'surround'. couple that with google search only yielding links to pro apps such as final cut pro and audio logic pro, i suspect i might have to look on the windows side for a surround app.

i thought i'd hit paydirt when i fired up imovie hd and it let me drag both the front and rear h2 files into the timeline below a video clip. i burned a dvd from this clip and although i had sound from the 4 channels the h2 created along with the 2 channels of the video clip soundtrack, they were all combined into just the r/l stereo channels on the disc.

i think you're idea about 4 mono tracks has merit and i'll explore that avenue next. garageband should be able to do this, especially since the new ilife has the new imovie which doesn't have the options the old imovie hd did and depends on garageband for editing audio tracks.

/guy

@Guy:

How do you get from a 2 or 4 channel recording using single or multiple files to burn a 5.1 track onto a DVD?

I've been puzzling over that as well. All the 5.1 encoders I've seen operate on six mono files, so perhaps you could split the H2's two stereo files into four mono files for L, R, LS, and RS. Next, either create blank files of the same length for the C and LFE channels or create derivative mixes — say, a lowpass-filtered mix for the LFE and a mono mix of the two front channels for C. (Just an idea.)

Minnetonka offers two $99 programs for making surround discs, DiscWelder Bronze and CD-DTS. The latter is Windows-only and the former makes DVD-A discs, however.

Immersive Media Research recently debuted a program called Vortex Surround Encoder that takes an arbitrary number of audio files and transforms them into an arbitrary surround output — everything from binaural stereo on up. I heard it play back on a 16.8.2 system (!) at the AES show.

There's a 30-day demo of VSE on the site. I don't know if the price is set yet, but I do know the company founders, so I'll see if they have any tips to offer.

There are a mess of intriguing (and free) converters at Daniel Courville's site. It would be interesting to run several of them back to back, e.g., Quad2B followed by B2G. He also mentions Option-dragging files into Toast; it wasn't clear whether that in itself generates a six-channel Dolby Digital soundtrack.

If you get a chance to try these approaches, please let us know what you discover. Seems to me the best delivery format would be a DTS CD or a Dolby Digital DVD.

back on the n00b frontier, i spent about 4 hours today trying to create a surround file on the mac that could be burned as a 5.1 track to dvd. i had no idea how to go about it and was just hoping that one of the half-dozen apps i tried would be intuitive enough. not intuitive enough for this n00b, is the conclusion. [g]

i tried garageband, imovie (old&new), idvd, amadeus pro, audacity, quicktime pro and a set of promising apps at: http://www.iis.fraunhofer.de

in none of these apps could i find a way to combine the 2 stereo files generated by the h2 into one file that contained 4 tracks or channels, much less 5.1 channels. audacity will combine the h2 files into one file by mixing it down, but you can do that on the h2 if i'm not mistaken with the pan feature. although audacity didn't seem to have a feature called 'pan', i guess you could create the same effect using the level controls against the 4 channels.

the fraunhofer apps will create some sort of pseudo 5.1 file which seems to only be useful in its own player. when you check info on the 'sx' file it just shows up as stereo in quicktime. and it will only accept one stereo file and create one 5.1 file--i couldn't find any way to merge the two 2 stereo h2 files in that app.

perhaps i'm trying to do something that's not possible with free and amateur tools. i'm sure any of you pros know: how do you actually get from a 2 or 4 channel recording using single or multiple files to burn a 5.1 track onto a dvd?

/guy

@ BarryS,

So if not the ME64 which powered mic would you get if you didn't want to fool with a phantom power box? I borrowed a friend's Rode NT3 to try since it's powered as well.

@Anonymous,

Perhaps you're right. I really feel bad that went so sour. I really did want to know what the guy had to say. And I really didn't intend to antagonize him. It's just as soon as I started to question anything he just started to go all "I'm an audio engineer, and know everything... how dare you question me noob!!!". I found his retorts offensive and just gave back as good as I got. But, I have to admit.. that wasn't so "adult" of me. I really do regret hurting his feelings and such.

@Paul,

Hummmm..... Not sure about all this. I'm finding a mid-gain setting and around 115-125 level setting working best to my ear. 100 seems too low, but I'll have to give it a shot and then normalize in software as Barry suggests. But, sound right out of the H2 without normalizing seems to work best with a higher level and mid-gain. I don't even find the hi-gain too objectionable.

To reduce the level you'd have to use an external mic with a lowish output and/or a -10dB pad, intended for very high levels without getting distortion at the mic itself. Or a mic/preamp (or mixer) suitable for the task. Or get further away from the sound source.

Let's not carry that MD discussion over to this page...

So if the only way to set recording levels is by using the L/M/H gain switch, what are some suggestions for reducing the levels when even the L position is too high, keeping in mind of course that the H2 is supposed to be an inexpensive, highly portable solution?

@skip hunt

the "enthusiast " on the MD forums that you spoke of , was actually quite a helpful member of the community over there , ( albeit a bit Old school) . It wasnt the issue of the MD vrs the H2 , I dont think , I read the posts very carefully , and you were being antogonistic towards him , it looked like to me you were intentionally trying to push his buttons , you in fact misquoted him several times as he stated , and I dont think you even really read what he was trying to say .
Shame though , you guys seem like if given half a shot at a normal conversation would actually have gotten along .

Nice pics on your website by the way , really interesting perspctives , and contrasts . I like the Light patterns and colors , the subject matter is very cool .

You really should have given a little more room over there on the MD forums , I have seen that guys work , one heck of a craftsman , if I need something fixed I know where to take it .

Just a quick note for those of you that haven't really sorted through the discussion below.

To set the levels on the Zoom H2, use the L/M/H gain switch to adjust the level, so the signal isn't clipping (distorting. Your highest level should be just below 0 db (the end of the meter).

Do not use the REC LEVEL controls on the front of the H2. The REC LEVEL should NEVER be set below 100, because this control just chops down the signal after it's already been converted to digital, potentially causing distortion.

Ideally, the REC LEVEL should ALWAYS be left at 100. Increasing the REC LEVEL doesn't do anything that can't be done by normalizing the sound file in your audio software.

Skip--I bought the ME66 and ME 64 capsules at the same time, but I don't think I'd by them both again. On axis, the ME 64 sounds almost like the ME66 (depending on the room). It's a very thin sound for a cardioid and I'd buy a good inexpensive cardioid like the Oktava MC012 or the Peluso CEMC6 and use a small phantom power box before I'd drop any money on the ME64. The ME66 (or ME64) has four things going for it--high voice intelligibility, high sensitivity/output, self-powering via the K6 module, and indestructability. The cost is much in the way of warmth or richness in the sound. So I'd prefer to pair a shotgun with a better all-around cardioid.

BarryS,

You have an ME64? Excellent! I wanted to buy the module but wanted to hear it first. What do you think of it? If you have time, can you do a comparison recording between the ME64 and ME66?

Regarding the minidisk crowd. Yeah, it's not just in audio stuff. There are "enthusiasts" I've butted heads with in the motorcycle and digital camera forums as well. It's just really annoying when you find people that are so committed to this brand or that.. so much so that if you critique it, they act like you're spittin' on their only baby. Or, they get sooooo wrapped up in the tech specs, frequencies, pixels, fuel mixtures, etc. that they completely forget about use, sonics, and aesthetics.

Haha--now you realize how hard it is to record clean dialogue outside for film production. Shotguns help to a point, but they distort frequencies quite a bit compared to an omni or a cardioid. That's fine for dialogue, but if you're recording anything musical, a shotgun sounds pretty bad.

I've also got an ME64 and some assorted AT mics, so I'll try those as well. Re the minidisc folks--not sure why people get so worked up, but I've noticed audiophiles can get worked up over minor things. My father was an audio engineer and I grew up playing in anechoic chambers and testing mics and speakers, but we had a healthy respect for equipment that did the job without costing a fortune.

There's a park/campground about an hour from where I live that has these giant wind chimes.. those long barritone pipes about 12ft long. They also have varied collection of them. Wind the breeze picks up, they produce the most amazing sound. A few days ago I went to record them. I tried the 90deg pattern, surround, the 120deg pattern, and the 4chan mode. The problem I was having was the mics seemed TOO sensitive. Everytime a car approached on the dirt road about a 100 yards off, I'd hear it in the recordings. I'd also pick up small aircraft in the area, the lady who takes the money for entrance on the other side of the house that was inbetween me and the chimes.. and some other lady inside the house on the phone about 30 feet away. Oh, and an occassional leaf blower about a 100 yards off. Not to mention the faint sound of boats on the lake about a quarter mile out. Couldn't get JUST the chimes.

Might go back and try it with a shotgun mic, or spend the night and get up early before anyone else does.

I've been to this place and always thought it was so peaceful and rich in sound. I tried to get the sound of birdsong at dawn in the woods, but fought the aircraft passing by about every 10 secs, and trucks on the highway about 3 miles away. It's amazing how much you "filter out" when listening. Until I tried to record that stuff, I had no idea all those other sounds were there. I was just choosing to hear ONLY the chimes, and ONLY the birdsong in the forest without any clue it wasn't anywhere near as quiet and peaceful as I'd previously thought. Thanks to the H2, my peaceful illusion has been forever shattered. ;-)

BarryS,

My sentiments exactly. Very happy with the purchase... and though I didn't plan on using it for video production.. it's looking like it could be very useful indeed.

Also, I might have given the impression the difference between the line-matching transformer and a standard cable was huge. It wasn't THAT big a difference. Just a couple more clicks on the input level when using a non-line-matching-trans and you'd have about the same recording more or less. It's just I already had one, so I didn't see a need to buy a standard converter. Though, the transformer is kinda heavy and I might just pick up a standard cable anyway.

I've only tried my ME66 and a couple small stereo mics. I'd really like to try an ME64 on it. I'm sure there are going to be a handfull of external mics that prove themselves to be the best combination with the H2, so I'll likely just sit back and wait for others with larger mic arsenals to do all the sleuthing to find out which mic hit's the H2s sweetspot.

ps. I've found it's not such a swell idea to go on minidisc-specific forum sites and say anything positive about the H2. Seems to drive'm nutz. ;-)

Skip--Thanks that's helpful information. The ME66/KG has a nominal impedance of 200 ohms, and the H2's input impedance is 20 kilohms, so it seems reasonable that a matching transformer might help. I have to say, I'm very happy with the H2 so far, including the quality of the onboard mics and the decent noise floor. The H2 may not have high-end specs, but I think it's a solid piece of audio gear and a great value. If I can use it for double system sound with a shotgun or hyper for video production, that's icing on the cake.

BarryS,

I already had a Shure line-matching-transformer but was getting eratic results. So I went to a local Guitar Center store to pick up a standard XLR to 1/8th stereo plug. All they had was a Mogami cable. I hadn't tried setting the menu to mono mix at this point, but I did in the store. Voila! It worked just fine. So I did a couple quick recordings in the store comparing my Shure line-matching-transformer cable to the Mogami cable. Both worked fine, but the Shure cable sounded stronger, a bit cripser, and louder with the same settings. So, I just stuck with that.

I did not have the H2s plugin power turned on since it has it's own phantom power via the K6 module.

I might stop back by the Guitar center and try the cable again. I was a bit rushed because they were closing in 15mins and had to decide if I was going buy anything or not. I'll be interested what your experience is.

I have an XLR>1/8" stereo cable on the way ( http://www.fullcompass.com/product/290022.html ) and I also have a ME66/K6, so I'll do the same test. The ME6/K6 is very high output and I considered ordering a cable with an inline transformer, but didn't think I'd need it. We'll see.

Rudy... Can you tell me which Case Logic bag you bought? (Model#) Also, is there room inside for the power supply?
Many thanks!!
Been waiting too long & I picked the slowest store which didn't even ship until a full week after Sweetwater began shipping. (I won't mention American Musical Supply's name) It has taken 8 days to ship to CA via UPS from Il. Sheesh! I even tried to figure out who would send them first.... Shoulda gone with Sweetwater, because mine was supposed to be here today, but stupid UPS didn't bring it. Did i mention i hate UPS??? They did bring me a rack case from Odyssey, which is their 3rd attempt to get a case that hasn't been damaged in transit, because each box looks like it was run over by a tank. The boxes looked unbelievably beat-up & they were only shipped from So. California to No. California.. I think perhaps it's a vengeance thing: some of the employees might not like to deal with heavy boxes, so they take out their aggression on the packages. Anyway, i digress... but i should be playing with my H2 right now... dammit.

I'm planning using it mostly to record my radio show & live DJ gigs. So am i going to have trouble finding the right levels for line-in recording?
I'm hoping it's a major improvement on my crappy Sharp MD recorder & my I-River MP3 player, which happens to have a line-in & records in MP3. With the latter I just had to guess at the input levels.

Many Thanks in advance!
Wish me luck that it arrives tomorrow!
Larry

a minor caution re the tripod socket: in order to get the supplied plastic 'tripod' legs to align the way i wanted them to, i placed a small, circular, single layer of thickish paper at the bottom of the tripod socket. i did not in any way force the tripod when i screwed it back in, only turning it until it felt firmly in place. but when i removed the tripod, the slight bit of extra force of the tripod screw against the shim had pushed the bottom plate at the bottom of the tripod socket downwards, canting it at a 45deg angle downwards (inward) with about half of it still attached. in other words, i can now look into the innards through the tripod socket. if that bottom 'plate' is plastic (as i strongly suspect) there seems no danger of it shorting anything out even if it falls all the way down. still, i might get some very small needlenose or tweezers and extract it to forestall this.

this might catch someone by surprise if they attach the h2 using a just slightly longer-than-normal tripod screw and it pushes the plate inwards.

[ozpeter] the podcast guy at the link you supplied says that while using the auto-record mode the h2 will start up again after having stopped. so the verdict is still out until i can get off work and test it myself--finally i have a couple of days off starting in a few hours.

i liked the scope of the review (it was quite long which most likely precluded more depth) while disagreeing with him about a couple of items. he complained about the menus wrapping (which i consider a feature) and the buttons (i do wish the record button was larger), but overall i don't see how anyone who has endured the frustration of that side jog dial on the h4 and drilling into its many menus to find something can much complain about the simplicity of using the h2 menus. and if he turns out to be right about the auto-start feature i'll really praise him.

/guy

Thaks Skip. I suspect the mono plug is having a seriously stuffing effect (I could be wrong but until you're able to try it with another connector I'll remain suspicious). No way should you need to connect such a high output mic via a line matching transformer to a MIC input. Only if there's a major problem with your particular one. They couldn't get it that wrong (well, hopefully....!).

Meanwhile, anyone remotely interested in the H2 should be listening to http://mefeedia.com/entry/3423836/ - at last, a proper audio review. I haven't yet got through it myself to see whether there is any comment on the mic in socket.

Ozpeter, yes with a K6 module with it's own battery. I'm using a Shure Line Matching Transformer. The signal is much better than when I used an XLR to 1/8in plug at the music store. Yes, the 1/8in side is mono.

Just to be sure... you were using the ME66 with a K6 powering module running on its own batteries and connected to the mic in socket of the H2?

Looking at the specs it should have an above-average output level, so I'd expect that it should give good results with the H2.

Also, I'm slightly suspicious of the "standard XLR to 1/8" plug - is that a TRS (stereo) plug on the end or mono?

Just making sure that there's nothing wrong with the test method!

I don't know if this helps... but when I tried my Sennheiser ME66 "shotgun" mic with a standard XLR to 1/8 plug... I got a very weak signal that was almost unusable. When I then used a line matching transformer inbetween the mic and H2... I got MUCH better results. I know this has nothing to do with the clipping some are reporting.. but it my have something to do with which external mic you use, and whether or not it's line-matched.

The manual implies that there is no level control at all with line input, though maybe they simply mean that the mic sensitivity control doesn't have a funtion (which is what you'd expect). It would be interesting to hear whether the 1 -127 control does work with a line input. Someone commented that the line in socket on the H2 is slightly too sensitive, so that a standard input level could overload the input before the 1 - 127 level control is reached. Dunno. Certainly there's every indication that the 1-127 control simply operates on the digital data after the A to D converter - it's really the audio equivalent of digital zoom on a camera, and as is generally accepted, digital zoom is not best used in camera as your photo software will do the same job afterwards (and you can choose your crop at leisure).

I'm actually not sure whether Hi-MD level control is the same - after the A to D - but it quite likely is, as it also applies to digital inputs. On a Hi-MD machine, you set the level to 23 (out of 30) for no digital gain on a digital input, though 16 out of 30 seems to be the figure to use for an analogue input. For the H2, it seems that 100 is the figure to use to avoid the H2 doing processing in the digital domain that might better be done on a PC afterwards (ie the equivalent of turning off digital zoom in a camera). In short, at least with mics either interal or external, the way to use it is to choose the mic sensitivity that does not overload with the 1-127 control set at 100, and if need be, up the level in a PC afterwards. With the sensitivities on offer, you'd be at worst recording at -10dB rather than at 0dB. Some say that recording at -12dB is no bad thing (though opinions differ) especially if 24 bits are available.

With line in, likewise set it to 100 and reduce the level externally to get the right result on the meters.

Once I get mine I can be a bit more certain of what I speak, however!!

ozpeter - I understand what you're saying. I'm not an audio engineer or MD expert by any means. But on my Sony RH-10 Hi-MD recorder, I can use a pair of binaural mics and a battery module plugged into the RH-10's line input, and then I can manually set the recording level from 0-30 such that the full range of sound can be captured without clipping. It doesn't appear that the H2 works the same way. My assumption is that the MD recorder is adjusting the analog input levels, but the H2 is adjusting the digital levels of the recording, which generates a different result.

I didn't really expect the internal mics or preamp of the H2 to handle the extreme sound levels of dragsters. But I did expect that I'd be able to use an external mic and battery module through line in the way I did with the Hi-MD recorder. If the recording levels on the H2 worked the same way as the RH-10 it seems like everything would be fine.

Regarding the price point, I paid about the same amount for the H2 as the RH-10, so I didn't consider that would be an issue. In the end I realize that I made some assumptions that perhaps I shouldn't have. The H2 may still do the trick and has other features I like, but I will have to figure out how to use it given its different design.

Ooops, post starting "It's the same on MD recorders" was mine.

I'll add this thought - when recording classical music, which is what I do, I always start with the same main pair and preamp setup, feeding that direct to a recorder, or via a mixer if using spot mics as well.

On that preamp I have a little red mark by the input level knob. Over the years I have found that almost all classical music is roughly the same level at the mic - ranging from symphony orchestra to solo guitar. How can that be?? Well, when you record the orchestra, you've probably got the mic suspended high and back somewhat. When it's the guitar you're probably only a couple of feet away. So the basic level setting is done via mic placement. Now I realise that in some other situations - such as recording a drag racer from a couple of feet away - it's going to be different. In that scenario I would actually be using the -10dB switch on the mic itself to begin with and maybe the -20dB switch on the preamp!

I don't think we can expect the H2 to be able to cover the full dynamic range of abnormal sound sources. To do so, you'd need more control within the device than the price point could support (eg pads on the mics themselves). Don't forget there are four mics in there. If you had the normal kind of arrangement, you'd have four individual rotating trim controls on the four mic preamps. There's simply not the space, and would you want to be fiddling with those if they did somehow cram miniscule ones in there? As it is they've gone for preset three-position controls, and then provided digital amplification control after the AD converter (it would appear) which might be handy for those not wanting to use software later.

Also, bear in mind that when using all four mics, if you record full level to each of them, on mixdown to two channels you're going to have to reduce the level somewhat to avoid clipping the master (by 6dB I think??).

I've seen similar concerns over other one-piece preamp-recorder combos and how levels should look and be set - how to get the best noise levels in the analog domain while getting a good level at the AD converter. Not easy.

It's the same on MD recorders - if you find you need to reduce the level below a certain number then it means that you're bound to be getting clipping before the level control - so you reduce the mic sensitivity setting instead. MDs (well, Sony ones) only have the two mic sensitivity settings, high and low, so the three on the H2 would appear to be a bonus!

Todd and Paul, excellent info, thanks!

rayray,
I encourage you to read down about 5 posts before yours...and also read posts at http://www.2090.org/zoom/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=7997. You'll see that there are issues with reducing the volume below, say, 95, causes unacceptable distortion; taking levels up to around 125 on a lower gain setting seems to work much better.

rayray- I understand that, but if you read the thread posted by jstiel, you'll see that the recording levels should not be set at anything other than 100, or at least not lower than 100. The thread is in reference to the H4, but apparently Zoom has designed the H2 the same way. In a nutshell, by changing the recording levels, you are not changing the analog input levels (as you might have expected), you are changing the level of the digital recording. In other words, you're simply setting the level at which recordings will be clipped as opposed to reducing the input level so that recordings won't get clipped in the first place.

Now that I understand that it works this way I'll have to do some more testing and see if I can achieve adequate results by using the L gain position, recording level of 100, and one of the limiter settings. What's unclear to me at this point is whether the line input is affected by the gain switch, but perhaps I won't need to use it anyway.

Paul,

At each "gain" level you used the forward and reverse keys to fine-tune the levels between 0-127.

jstiel- Thank you very much for the link to the thread on the Zoom Gear forum. That seems to explain the clipping problem I am seeing.

That said, I'd have to say that I'm very disappointed to discover that the H2 is essentially limited to just 3 gain settings. When the product literature mentions the ability to adjust recording levels, I'm sure most people assume that means that they'll be able to finely tune the analog input levels just like they can on most other devices. Apparently that's not the case. I'm not sure whether to call this a "flaw", or "bad design", or "misleading marketing" but it's definitely an issue (and a huge one for my particular application).

This is a qualitative report and somewhat subjective. I recorded two rock/pop bands (with their permission) on the H2 last weekend and was very pleased with the results. One was an outdoor event, which sounded great, the other was an indoor bar, which had a lot of crowd noise and room reverberation. However, this also sounded good under those tough conditions. The wide frequency spectrum of drums, cymbols, lead and bass guitars and voice all came across quite nicely. The frequency response is a bit weighted toward the low end but highs still came across. I had no clipping and the gain was set on the medium setting. I tried various record modes and as expected the WAV files with highest sampling sounded a bit crisper, but the MP3 320 sampling was very respectable too and offered much longer recording time. I picked up an exact fit mini-camera bag by Case Logic at Wal-Mart along with an Energizer battery charger with 2500 mAh batteries. At this first attempt, I just wanted to see how it sounded and was very pleased. The level of my previous experience has just been with SONY Camcorders (stereo) not SONY MD audio recorders, so I'm approaching this from the lower end of the audio market. I did have a Tandberg cassette deck in the 80's - I'm amazed at the evolution of audio over the years. But as an audio amateur, I am quite pleased with the H2.

The threads look plastic but they are metal. I looked at mine before I threaded anything and it looked fairly rough to begin with. The plastic cover looks like the same color as the metal insert. I took a safety pin and scratched the top of the threads where it joins the plastic cover and was unable to scratch the threading but easily scratched the plastic edge. The bottom of the insert is also plastic and scratches easily but the threads are fine.

I am really enjoying the unit so far. I will primarily be using it for archiving jazz classes and piano lessons but I have already recorded a couple of casual chat sessions with my 9 year old that I find priceless and I think he will get a kick out of them in twenty years or so.

tks for the link to the windows 5.1 util. here's the only freeware item i could find for the mac. i'll be trying it out asap:

http://www.versiontracker.com/dyn/moreinfo/macosx/32790

(when i went to the developer site to make sure the link was still working i see there's a handful of apps all for windows and mac osx)

http://www.all4mp3.com/tools/sw_fhg_demo.html

/guy

/guy

I recorded a VERY loud band last night, so loud I could only stick around for a couple of tunes, really quite painful. I had the gain on L and the recording level at 100. I got a few clips, not as many as I though I would get. If the H2 is like the H4, you have to use the gain switch as your primary setting. Anything less than 100 on the level will cause clipping. See this thread:
http://www.2090.org/zoom/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=7997

I can't tell for sure on mine. It looks like plastic all around it, but it also appears that it might have a thin insert that's metal. I've used the mount on about 5 different supports now.. if it's metal.. it's definitely a soft metal because it already looks worn.

I received my H2 last week... for starters, I think the tripod mount is definitely plastic.

I bought the H2 for a purpose probably much different than most: I record sounds from auto racing events. I'm hoping that it will be more reliable than the Hi-MD recorder I was using and will allow me to escape Sony's proprietary formats and SonicStage software.

I had the opportunity this weekend to put the H2 through a bit of a torture test: NHRA Top Fuel dragsters at the US Nationals in Indianapolis.

Before I subjected the H2 to the top fuel dragsters, I tested the H2's internal mics and preamp on some quieter machines. As somewhat expected, even on the low gain setting and a low recording level, there was a ton of distortion.

For subsequent tests, I used my Sound Professionals SP-TFB-2 binaural mics and SP-SPSB-1 battery module, plugged into the "line-in" input on the H2. However, I still ended up with a ton of distortion.

When I set the recording levels, I made sure the max levels were nowhere near 0Db. In fact, I started out with them fairly low and then increased them. But on the recordings themselves, the sound levels appear to be getting clipped, making them distorted. The really odd thing is that the clipping is not always at the same level... if I started out at a lower level, the recording gets clipped sooner.

I'm not sure I'm explaining this very well, but I know it didn't happen with my Hi-MD recorder. Is this some kind of a dynamic range limitation or something? I know I didn't have automatic gain control or anything turned on, so I don't think that could be it.

Has anyone else recorded any very loud sounds yet? Are there any other details I can provide that might help to figure out what's going on?

Hey Sampson (et al) -

I appreciate your comments. Please let's remember that as a reviewer, mine is only one opinion among many.

I have not experienced a drop out problem with the H2 (unlike with, say, first generation ADATs... or analog tape, for that matter) -- that's not to say it may not happen to some. Perhaps I was over zealous in stating it is common to mention the possibility in manuals, since I don't have any of the manuals handy for the dozen or so digital recorders I have reviewed over the years. See what happens when I fly blind?

As the mention of drop outs in the manual has raised red flags, I will run this by Zoom for their comment. If anything interesting comes back, I'll stick it in the review.

Also, I was just trying to have fun with your comments about start-up time. As I said, it is short enough that I'm not concerned. (Unlike another flash recorder I can think of. Ditto most portable and desktop DAWs I've looked at, some of which take ages to start-up and shut-down. And talk about annoying annimations!)

Each of the field recorders I have reviewed takes several seconds between the time you hit "on" to record ready, I'm afraid.

Yes, my Sony Walkman Pro started up right away, too. But my Sony Mini-disc (forgot the model) took a while. Heck, sometimes I take a while to start up in the morning...

Now then, I have a favor -- a couple of folks mentioned that the threaded insert for the stand/adaptor is plastic. On my unit it is plainly metal (I scratched it to be sure.) So, can folks who have bought one of these puppies please chime in?

Other than that, looks like I gotta get writing if I'm going to stay ahead of the pack.

@Sampson:

Yep, you're right... I was looking for dropout and jumped tp conclusions prematurely. So, I guess I have NOT experienced any dropout yet.

I haven't tried it yet, but I wonder if the H2's re-encode, normalize, etc. might actually work properly if powered by the AC adapter? Yes, I know this is better done in post, but if you're traveling/backpacking... and just want to upload audio to a blog via an internet cafe along the way... it'd be nice if you could do some basic cutting and re-encoding within the unit.. rather than have to carry a laptop. That's the only reason I was checking these features.

@Skip Hunt:
"First, I DID get some dropout (I think). I can hear a series of click sounds in random fashion. But, ONLY if I first record in 4channels 48k 24bit OR 44.1 24bit and then use the unit to 3D Pan the mix and encode the two pairs down to one stereo pair."

That's not really dropouts the way the manual describes them. Firstly, you should have seen a message if they WERE dropouts. Second, they should have happened during recording.

This is probably just a poor merging algorithm. As others have already said, this sort of editing is best done externally.

But you say you did 4channels 48k 24bit without dropouts. That's a good sign.

@Mark:
"every single digital recorder (and DAW software, for that matter) I've looked at mentions the possibility of audio drop outs and audio glitches somewhere in the manual."

I own 3 digital recorders, none mention possible dropouts or glitches, hence my astonishment. (DAW software is different: it has to contend with other concurrent tasks, various CPUs etc.) But dedicated recorder software runs in a dedicated environment, so dropout causes should be clearly determinable.

"RE: start-up time & animation: ummm, just how impatient have we become in this modern world?"

My old Sony Walkman pro had no startup time. Many real-life recordings would have been significantly less valuable had I have had to wait for an animation. You report 5-8 seconds, someone else said 2-4 after formatting the card in the H2.
Seems variable. Possibly card and settings-fetch-time dependent.

@Kennethm
"What about clock accuracy?
I tried the H4 to add sound to a 1 hour film and had to stretch the sound file"

That is strange. They should be crystal controlled. Naturally expecting frame-accuracy is unreasonable, but I have done a 2-hour movie on analog Hi-8, sound transferred onto an Edirol R-09 to fix some fluffs, and they stayed in lip-sync right to the very end (starting both simultaneously was another story, 'tho!)

http://www.afterdawn.com/software/audio_software/audio_encoders/aud-x_5_1_surround_codec.cfm might be worth a try?

What is the quickest and cheapest (freeware?) way to convert the "surround" files of the H2 into a CD or audio DVD playable on an ordinary consumer surround sound audio system?

Bostonguy, It depends who you ask. To my ears I say yes. To people on the minidisc community forum they will tell you that you must get the RH1.

If you do go with the H2, be aware that it is made out of plastic and if you intend to do a lot of recording in the field it may not last as long as you hoped for, wheres minidisc recorders are built solid.

OTOH, minidisc is a dying form of media and soon enough it won't be around, so does it makes sense to invest in it? DOn't know how to answer that.

I say listen to the samples linked to below and decide for yourself. But if you go with the H2, handle with care.

Would this be the device to get if I am trying to break into freelance local radio work? Most of the specs and language thrown back and forth is far beyond me, my only concern is quality voice recording and ease of in field use....

Herfinnur, I'm hoping that the H2 could be used to record classical performances in 4 channel mode, mounted on a stand quite close to the performers (eg right behind the conductor) and that in postproduction one could use the rearward pointing pair to add ambience and life to the direct sound from the front. Personally I dislike the sound of crossed cardioids (eg one pair of the H2 mics) and normally use a very expensive Sennheiser MKH series "MS stereo" rig which gives much more of an impression of the performance in the particular space. This was the mic configuration originally intended for the H2. Pairs of crossed cardioids forwards and back as in the H2 might, perhaps, be another way of constructing that kind of sound. We'll see...

Thank you for the replies guys. My own use for it would be recording demos to accompany applications for auditions, and for recording concerts and vocal lessons. I've also done a bit of choir directing and singing in f.x. churches, where the acoustics where really good, but the sound I got with my MiniDisc and a mic that otherwise delivers good results, was horrible and useless. I've always thought that omnidirectional mic's where good for lively acoustics, but it's hard to record in stereo with them + I don't like to have one or several huge mic-stands in a concert because it can be distracting for the audience.

The thing is that sometimes you have a performance that is so exceptional that even if it isn't recorded in pristine quality, people still decide to release it (or put it up on MySpace). People will also buy those recordings because they are special, and if you have one of those performances you want to make sure that you've got it on record

now i prefer (barely) #3 over #1. but #4 sounds cleanest.

w/o knowing what you really sound like, i'd say that #1 and #3 have 'character' or color in the voice which #2 and #4 lack. the difference seems to be the presence of bass frequencies.

it does seem to show that the ext mics can be made to compare with the int mics, but the attraction of this device to me is the portability and deployability (made up word)--a device the size of a light meter (well, a 50's light meter!) that can ride in any pocket. i'd have to really have a specialized use to even consider using ext mics.

my bottom line is that if the h2 is even 75-85% as good as the h4 in quality at casual recording then it's a winner due to the cheaper price, smaller size, and the much easier to use interface. not to mention the surround capability if that tests out worthwhile.

i'm sure some of the audio experts on here will be able to pin this down based on facts, not subjective opinions, so take my opinion as the absolute layman's view.

/guy

Ok.. added two more clips optimized for the Sennheiser mic with the bass rolloff engaged AND flat.

I probably didn't do the test fairly. Both were on a mic stand. But, my mouth was different distances away. From the H2 I was only a few inches away. From the shotgun I was about 2feet away. And, I've noticed I get better results from the Sennheiser if I kick the gain up to HI. I just did them both at MID so that others could look for noise in the gain setting. I'll do another one with the Sennheiser at HI gain.

Also, I had the rolloff switch on the Sennheiser set to flat. Through headphones and my stereo.. the flat setting sounds fuller. With the rolloff switch engaged... the Sennheiser sounds more "tinny" via headphones and the stereo... but sounds "crisper" via my laptop.

to my ears, the built-in mic recording had more depth and 'thickness' or 'color'; i.e., sounded richer in frequencies.

the 2nd recording with the sennheisers sounded trebly and 'weak' with no punch or substance.

i much prefer the first setup over the second but that second setup might let a voice stand out from background noise better. and i'm no expert--for certain applications lack of 'color' or 'depth' might be preferred.

thanks for the sample.

/guy

Here's a couple quick voice tests I did between the H2 onboard FRONT mics at 90deg and a Sennheiser ME66 MONO mix. Both recorded at 96khz 24bit... and coverted to mp3 320kbps for web delivery.

http://www.poppinfreshmedia.com/h2test.html

have you tried audacity and garageband? even quicktime or qt pro might let you manipulate these files as tracks. as to actually creating a surround sound file i too will be exploring this question asap.

one question i have is whether, even if you manage to create a 5.1 track and burn a dvd using it, whether an a/v receiver would recognize it since it's not going to be dolby.

unfortunately i received my h2 at the first of a long string of 12-hour shifts and have not been able to do much more than go through the manual with it sitting at my desk and annoy others with stupid questions. it's even too noisy at work to do any meaningful testing.

/guy

Anyone know of a reasonably intuitive Mac OSX app that will let me play with these 4Channel stereo pairs the H2 creates? And make a 5.1 mix?

When BeOS was getting attention.. I remember seeing one of their Audio 3D 5.1 surround apps that seemed VERY intuitive. Anyone know what that app was called? if that ever got ported over to OSX? And if something like that would work with the 4channel stereo pairs the H2 creates?

Anyone tried yet?

I'm using it with a 4 gb Kingston HC SD card. It works fine, even though it's not on that list.

I've also taken some pix with my wife and my cats showing the size:
http://www.stinkfight.com/2007/08/31/my-review-of-the-new-zoom-h2-portable-digital-recorder/
(the cats are young, small, 8 months old)

Herfinnur, I'm a freelance classical recording engineer, so when I finally lay hands on an H2 I'll be able to give you an answer from experience! But I agree with Todd, except that personally I've got some extremely good results from Hi-MD equipment, and if the H2 does noticeably better in terms of sound quality, I'd be surprised. And it's also a matter of exactly what the comparison is - the H2 using its built-in mics vs a Hi-MD recorder with what mic? Or the same external mic used with each? And so forth. Initial reports seem to cast some doubt on the H2 with external mics due to preamp insensitivity but whether this is actually a problem under real-world conditions isn't at all clear yet.

Oops--that was me below.

Some more thoughts--

Forget the onboard processing (normalizing/compression/mp3 conversion), this stuff is *much* better done in post. Get a basic audio program and you'll have better control and quality.

As Oz mentions, you really need an external condenser mic, not a dynamic mic. I'd go with a self powered mic for outdoor interviews like a K6/ME66 short shotgun or equivalent.

The H2's clock is not going to be any better than the H4's. Unless you're jam syncing two SMPTE timecode devices, you can't expect frame accuracy. You can always use head and tail clapper slates to sync sound. People do this all the time with non-timecode recorders.

For personal music recording, it really depend on how picky you are. The pre's are good, but not great. I think they're very useable, but I don't expect top quality for $200. There are some small outboard preamps that would allow you to use an external mic routed through the line in. A device like this might still route the line in through it's preamp circuit, but at least you wouldn't be pushing up the noise floor with a high gain on the pre.

oz ought to recognize this one:

http://forums.minidisc.org/index.php?showtopic=19765&st=0

you hardcore audio guys are nearly as squabbly and opinionated as us hams. ... nearly ... [g]

also found this sample of an electric guitar recording where the guy said he put it on vbr and placed it in front of the amp:

myspace.com/sidewardszoe

/guy

Herfinnur,
I guess it depends on what you want to DO with this classical recording. If it's release a CD, probably not; a demo, yes, I think it would suit this need quite well; to document your performances, yes, again, it does this very well. It just depends on what your needs and expectations are.

From my experience with MiniDisc recorders, this is going to sound much better, because it covers a great frequency range than most MD records do. I personally think it is better than the M-audio stuff, because more care has been taken on mic placement, orientation, etc.

My 2 cents...

I want to know if the Zoom H2 could be used for pro recording in a live CLASSICAL setting, like song and piano, choir, chamber orchestra, opera and so on. I am a classical singer, so it would be just the thing for me.
And I think there could be an enormous marked for this thing if it is better than good. Hundreds of thousands are carrying unsatisfactory MiniDisc or DAT recorders with them which are out of date. A lot of classical musicians and ensembles also use newer recorders from edirol, m-audio and so on, but the accompanying stereo microphones aren't really geared for picking up the acoustics in a nice way, because the polar patterns are too narrow, causing a little bit of an empty barrel sound

http://preview.tinyurl.com/35jhq8 has some worthwhile discussion of the Zoom H2 after half a page of confused posts.

What about clock accuracy?
I tried the H4 to add sound to a 1 hour film and had to stretch the sound file as the H4 was almost 1 sec off at the end. A well known fact on several forums, btw.

It´s easy to check: Use a wristwatch with chime (hour) signal and do a recording with two chime signals. Then open the sound file in an editor and check if the beeps are exactly 1 hour apart. (The watch itself should preferably be checked against an external time source over a couple of days also)

The link I gave takes you to a rather odd looking site, and the 15 minute audio sample is a bit bizarre (but inoffensive) but you can get quite a feel for the obtainable sound from the built in mics around the house and rather noisy local area of the proud new H2 owner. Sounds like it was running on auto level. 192kbps. We can't be sure what post-production was used on the recording but running it through Audition's frequency analysis shows a smoothly maintained response to 16kHz, where it steps down by 5dB quite sharply. At 19720 it drops off sharply as might be expected. Low frequencies are very well represented.

Some handling noise is evident. The manual suggests holding the mic stand attachment with a glove! If I recall rightly, cardioid mics are more prone to handling noise than omni mics. The H2 has four cardioid mics in a small space with probably little scope for shockmounting, so handling noise is inevitable. I guess one would get used to techniques to avoid it - get it on and running at the right level in advance, do the interview or whatever while keeping it still with no button presses, then stop and chop of the extra stuff at the start and end later. However, mounting a mic directly on an MD recorder would probably be worse because of the constant disk access noise, which of course the H2 does not have.

bedwardstiek, I get the feeling that this device would be happiest with a highish output condenser type mic rather than a dynamic - I'd guess that's the type of mic they've used internally.

Normalising would require the H2 to internally play through the file to find the highest level, then process each sample accordingly. On a fast PC this would be a quick process, but this is just a recording device, so such an operation is not going to be quick - I'd expect something like 1/2 realtime overall at best. However, taking a long time with a very short file seems odd.

sorry.. didn't see your post. Mine did it with merely a 1GB card. Haven't tried it with the card it comes with. The second time I tried I had fresh pair of NiMH batteries in... so I let it just keep going to see if it just REALLY takes that long. But, it never completed. My guess is that it tried for about 5hrs until the battery died. And, the clip was only about 90secs long.

I'm a radio journalist, and bought a zoom H2 to use for field recording interviews. I'm really pleased with the interface (no need to use menus while recording, easy on-the-fly level adjustment, easy marking, etc.) but VERY disappointed with the mic pre-amp. With a dynamic microphone, my recordings were almost too noisy to use. I get better mic sound recording quality on my 5-year-old minidisc player. The internal mic is OK, but limited--picks up lots of ambient noise, is not conveniently located for interviews, and picks up handling noise if you use any of the on-board controls while recording.

yes, as i previously posted: normalize did the exact same thing to me. i ran it against a 30 second file and it was still hung or something after 10-12 minutes. i had to pull the battery.

at that time i was still fooling with cards and had not gotten the h2 itself to format an sdhc card, so i wasn't sure whether i could blame the unit or the card.

/guy

I've had an H2 for 3 days now and have run all of the features through the paces... done some field recording, ambient bar noise, etc. And so far, I have to say it's everything I was looking for.

I'm not an audio engineer but I've worked with some... edited video for broadcast... shot film... done a little recording and editing of audio for local radio spots, etc. So, I'm not completely foreign to the audio realm. I'm just not an engineer or bit cruncher.

No, I'm sure there are units costing 4 times more that can give a more faithful reproduction, etc. But, I only wanted something light and small to put in my camera bag that didn't require ectra mics, cables, etc. That was capable of getting decent recordings in a variety of situations without much fuss. I too an a photographer and wanted to play with doing some abmient work as soundtrack for my images (http://www.skiphuntphotography.com). So, the H2 is perfect for me.

However, since I've now gone through every feature.. I've notices a few miner problems. First, I DID get some dropout (I think). I can hear a series of click sounds in random fashion. But, ONLY if I first record in 4channels 48k 24bit OR 44.1 24bit and then use the unit to 3D Pan the mix and encode the two pairs down to one stereo pair. The resulting stereo pair will have this "clicking" sound consistently. Yes, I'm aware it's better to do your post in the computer. But I wanted to test everything. If I do a 4channel recording in 16bit and re-encode to a single stereo pair.. it's fine, no clicking. And, even if I record in 4channel 24bit.. the source pairs are fine without clicking. ONLY when re-encoded to a single pair via the H2's onboard processing.

Second problem is that when I select a stereo file to "nomalize" within the menu, the H2 takes an awfully long time working on it. Says "searching peaks".. then after an hour it says.... "Now Processing". This goes on for hours or until the battery dies. AND once you start the process, it won't let you cancel. It just keeps either "searching" or "processing". I couldn't even get it to force quit by turning off the power. The only thing that worked was pulling the batteries. I tried again with another file and the exact same thing.

Like I said, it's not that big a deal since I'll likely do all my post later and NOT with the H2, but this is certainly a bug. Likely a firmware fix. Can anyone test theirs and tell me if it does the same thing? Maybe I got a flawed one.

Everything else is great. I love this little thing and will get use out of it. But, I really wish they had put a metal tripod mount on this thing. I've carefully mounted the H2 on several devices over the last three days, and the threads are already looking worn.

There's a short review and some long audio samples at http://www.stinkfight.com/2007/08/31/my-review-of-the-new-zoom-h2-portable-digital-recorder/

Guy - Very well stated.

hi rudy: i have worked in technical fields all my life and surely value such measurements, but sometimes they have to be put into context and perspective. it just seemed like the tester at this link treated this device as if it was a $3000 studio device or dedicated interface or preamp and not the $300 , be-all do-all portable compact-sized consumer product it is. after all, i wouldn't dream of comparing an hp 5361B bench frequency counter ($10k) to the handheld chinese one i picked up at a ham flea market for $99.95 even though they cover the same range. the difference in price being just how badly you need the accuracy and stability.

/guy

The real test for me will be to record up close a live local rock band (with their consent, of course) and hear how the high frequency and low frequency components sound. Also if there is any distortion and whether one gets an auditory sense of realism or as the sonic studios guy said an "AM radio" effect.

Guy -
My background was in engineering and engineers like to get specs and confirm them with measurements. I found that for Zoom not to publish such specs as frequency response, signal to noise ratio and harmonic distortion is very suspicious. Many of the other digital recorders do publish these numbers and they are quite good. On the other hand, from a musicians point of view and ear, the H2 may still sound fine and do an adequate job. I do believe Zoom has made some design compromises along the way to put out a less expensive digital recorder, but on the other hand the device does have a lot of features. If the Ford can get you there, you may not need a BMW.

just finished reading the tests at the link odin7 provided:

http://www.sonicstudios.com/zoomh4rv.htm#spectrum

and the guy literally crucified the h4. this was in the first paragraph:

Noise/frequency response measurements were so poor, I stopped more thorough testing and canceled doing a full review. This deck was NOT going to be suitable for most recordists requiring adequate audio quality.

and goes on to say:

The limited high frequency bandwidth (which was measured several times because I couldn't believe it to be that bad) was the showstopper removing any hope of serious use as a recorder.

Doubtful the "M/H" input settings have more available bandwidth. This is moot because noise is way excessive on all input settings on this deck.

now, i know we're not talking about the h4 except in comparison and i know i have lousy ears ruined by target shooting and aircraft launches, but i found the h4 the absolute best recording device i've ever used with no noticeable noise floor. i just wonder how my experience (and the experiences of many other, much more expert folks, on the guitar forum i frequent be so different from this guy with his test equipment? perhaps the clue is where he talks about selling the h4? my theory is that he couldn't get a good enough deal and was cheesed off. [g]

seriously, i'm assuming few of you found the h4 that bad if you're here for info about the h2.

/guy

well, the start/stop feature is still very worthwhile and useful to me as is. i play the fiddle and i can see that i could set it up--using the preview or pre-record feature that buffers 2s of audio--to record my playing. the longest you can set it to wait before stopping is 5 seconds though, so you'd have to start your next piece in that time or reset between pieces. i'm just assuming that the 2s buffer will work with auto-start, i haven't actually tried it.

for the usb transfer speed problem, at least the card is much easier to extract than the one on the h4 was. there are several new sdhc readers on the market including a sandisk micro one they package with some of their cards. another way to go is the sandisk sd card that unfolds to plug directly into a usb port, but i think 2gb is the highest capacity of this model.

/guy

also, given the new reports on sdhc cards i just now tried formatting a transcend 4gb sdhc class6 card that had failed when i tried it the first couple of days i had my h2. sure enough, this time it formatted just fine. go figure! i did notice that moving different cards in and out in quick succession seemed to confuse it, but that i eventually managed to read and write to all of them 4gb sdhc and 2x8gb sdhc even if i had to format them in a camera first.

in a previous post, i noted that the settings seemed to revert back to defaults when cards were changed and tram57 seems to have confirmed this, noting that the config is actually saved on the card itself.

i also reported a startup time of approx 10s using the 4gb transcend card but after managing to format it in the h2 the startup time dropped 2-4 seconds.

/guy

Guy, I fear then there's no repeat start/stop. But I can see where they're coming from - they're thinking in terms of the self-recording musician who wants to set it up for a take, retire to the playing position, and perform once, then playback (or, in my case probably, erase!).

Also, perhaps repeated start/stop would lead to a mass of little files, as each new recording generates one, and the number of files per folder is I think restricted.

Pity about the slow speed USB. If it was proper high-speed it would probably have been possible to open the recorded files direct from DAW software without transferring. As it is, it looks like you'd have to put the SD card into a reader to access it quickly, which implies regular removal and insertion, so I hope the card slot contacts are robust.

(An aside - one low-cost DAW, Reaper [and possibly others], can be installed right onto removable cards. So you could have it installed onto the card you use with the H2, then after recording put the card into whatever PC is to hand, and edit).

ozpeter, i won't attempt to address the l/r issues as i am spatially challenged anyway and thus incapable of being confused much beyond my baseline level. [g]

but one of the primary reasons i wanted the h2 besides the surround capability was the 'auto-start' feature. i 'assumed' from my reading of the pre-release docs available that it was a feature like is found on olympus recorders sometimes called 'aor' or 'vor' where the unit will start and stop with your voice.

to my dismay, i could not get the h2 to restart once it had stopped no matter how i mucked about with the few settings. i am very disappointed that i was wrong about this feature and i would love to be proven wrong--that it could somehow be set to start and stop and start again.

/guy

The new Zoom Japanese site adds to the confusion about left, right, front, back, and mic angle with an illustration which seems to have the wider mics on the display side (it's the illustration to the left of the 3D panning screenshot - in fact if you look closely, all the illustrations seem the wrong way round). If the L and R logos appear on the H2 as in the illustration, then surely the mic angles are the other way round, according to the manual? Also the references to "front" and "rear" seem reversed. But the photos near the bottom of the page have the front correctly labelled.

In fact, if the H2 works the way the manual describes rather than the way the publicity describes, they would seem to have got it wrong for journalists using the H2 for interviews. In that scenario, you'd probably want the 90 degree mic angle facing the interviewee while you check the levels and press the controls - but the manual illustations indicate that to record 90 degrees, you have to have the controls towards the sound source, which is counter-intuitive. When recording a musical performance on the other hand, you'd perhaps want the 120 degree side and the controls towards the band (which might include yourself) and not towards the audience (distracting). Hmmm....

And then when you use the 3D panner, the orientation of the audio would appear to be the other way round from the way you are holding the device, as "front" on the panner is the audio that would have originated over your shoulder as you hold the device.

Checking the original USA site illustrations, they too are reversed from those in the manual. Perhaps a user could finally clear up this muddle! David, if you have contacts at Sampson you might point out that they are seriously confusing people! Well, me anyway. Or perhaps they have succeeded in confusing themselves.

Interesting the 8Gb cards (Transcend) are now on the "supported" list officially.

Ooooh, there's a frequency response diagram for the built in mics, which seems perfectly respectable.

While I'm here, has anyone discovered whether th automatic level-controlled recording stop/start only works for one stop/start cycle, or will it repeatedly stop and start in the presence/absence of incoming audio? If it's "one shot" that would be a pity.

the usb transfer speed depends on your pc and the usb port on the h2. the h2 manual says that it it is usb2.0 but only supports 'full' speed which, if i understand right, is no faster than usb1.1. usb1.1 crawls and is really only useful for mice and keyboards and suchlike. what is needed is usb2.0 highspeed on both your pc and h2 for fastest transfer.

/guy

I have had the H2 for 3 or 4 days now and am quite happy with it. For a test, I recorded a 2 plus hour band rehearsal using the 4 channel surround mode (44.1k wav format). No dropouts were encountered in either of the 1.6 GB stereo files that were created. The only thing that I question at this point is the USB transfer speed, which is slow to me. It took 66 minutes to transfer these 2 - 1.6 GB files to my PC. Is this a function of the SD card used or a limitation of the H2? Either way, Zoom has a winner here in my book and should it transorm the pricing structure of these devices going forward.

Recording in either 48kHz/24bit/4ch or 96kHz/24bit/2ch (you can't record at 96kHz/4ch) equals a bitrate of 0.55 MB/s (96000x24x2/8/1024/1024 or 48000x24x4/8/1024/1024), so a card with at least 1 MB/s write speed should easily be able to keep up with the live bitstream at the highest setting. For editing, a faster card may be beneficial.

to michael: read my posts on card tests further down. my experience was that i was able to use transcend 4gb, a-data 8gb and patriot 8gb cards. but my unit would not format any of them. is your firmware v1.02?

/guy

So, has anyone tried it with external mics yet? How's preamp quality?

Mark -
Yes, I'm just (over)reacting to the manual along with some previous posted comments. So far in general, I'm happy with the device. I recorded my daughter rehearsing for a play and we were both pleased with the sound - no ticks or buzzes and very good 'presence'. I let it record until battery exhaustion and it produced a 760 Mb file before the battery warning came on at about 5.3 hours. The record mode was MP3 320 kbps. I didn't check the whole file for dropouts. I used a 2 Gb Crucial SD card.

Anyone seen noise specs, esecially for each of the mic gain settings L, M, and H. My initial trial recordings suggest that the M setting may provide the lowest noise floor making me wonder wither H introduces a gain stage, and L introduces an active attenuation stage. Interested in what others find. The operating system and menu structures are intuitive and very effective - the unit is very easy to use. By the way, it seems that the system configuration is stored in a configuation file written on the SD card and not in an hardware EPROM, so if you reformat a card, you'll need to go through and reset any settings made that are not defaults (e.g. recording fidelity). The manual comments that one shouldn't alter the files in the system directory on the SD card consistent with the above. Not a problem, just something to be aware of. I'm very pleased thus far.

BTW, just so others here know.
Zoom says that the H4 can format and run 4GB SDHC cards which is true.
But I purchased a couple 8GB Transcend SDHC cards off of Newegg, and to my supprise I was able to format and use the cards in the H2 with no problem.

Rudy, Gerson, Sampson et al -

I'm trying to figure out if you are experiencing drop outs, or if you are just reacting to something in the manual. I've slammed the puppy repeatedly, incluing 4 track recordings, and I have yet to experience a drop out -- or any other card issue. I will test it with an off brand card to be sure, 'natch.

But I'd suggest not getting too worked up from reading the manual -- every single digital recorder (and DAW software, for that matter) I've looked at mentions the possibility of audio drop outs and audio glitches somewhere in the manual. It's a sorry fact of digital recording that stuff can happen to your audio as it is written to the media-- and it would be wrong to not alert users to the potential. That does not mean it is inevitable. (Well, actually, it is -- that's why we take precautions such as using high quality media, buying "approved" hard dives, practicing safe computing, etc. etc. etc. to minimize the risk.)

RE: start-up time & animation: ummm, just how impatient have we become in this modern world? I'm getting consistant start-ups of between 5 and 8 seconds, depending on the card. It takes longer than that to get a picture on my TV.

I would very much like to hear from people who have used the H2 and who have experienced some of the issues everyone being bandied about. (So far, it's dropouts, ticking noises, and noisy pre-amps). Please be specific -- what problem did you encounter? What were you doing at the time? What kind of memory card?

Funny - no one has mentioned how much the H2 looks like a droid when it's wearing its little wind screen and penguin-feet stand.

Cheers,

Mark

How about the SD card coming with the unit, does it encounter any 'dropout' problem?

From the H2 manual-
"Depending on the combination of operation
mode and recording mode, data transfer to the
SD card during recording may momentarily
not be able to keep up with the data stream,
leading to a brief sound dropout (skipping).
When this occurs, the indication "Data write
Error" is shown on the display during
recording and after recording is finished. The
likelihood for dropouts increases when the
processing load on the H2 is heavy. If droput
errors occur, change the recording mode and
redo the recording."
-Yeah right - redo the one time event to recapture what got dropped.
Zoom Corp definitely has the arrogance of SONY when it comes to design flaws.

Sorry, the dropouts thing again: the manual dedicates page 62 to the topic and they even developed software to automatically mark them, so clearly Zoom expects dropouts.

The worrying thing is the explanation that "the SD card...may momentarily may not be able to keep up with the data stream" - a data stream that is constant and unvarying, being stored on an electronic storage medium doing nothing but storing this stream. This makes no sense to me. Either a particular card can handle the data rate or it can't. And if it's a borderline card, dropouts should come at regular intervals as buffers overflow before saving is possible.

I apologize about going on about this, but I am more than a little concerned because Zoom suggests no measures one might take to prevent or minimize possible dropouts.

Recording 4 tracks at full resolution is probably the way to push a card to the limit; with maybe a slower, cheaper card? Perhaps someone will come across dropouts and say "Yes, I got dropouts when I did this and that". Then we will know more.

David,
Sorry I wasn't more specific on my mic needs. I think I will mostly be using the H2 for recording gigs that I'm on, my own practice time and also to record my drum lessons with students. The gigs that I'm on are from duo to quintet in size.

Hope that helps,
Todd

@Todd: What types of instruments do you want to record? Knowing that would help us recommend mics. From your site, I see you're a drummer. Typically engineers use multiple mics to record drum kits, with different types for kick, snare (often top and bottom), toms, and hi-hat, plus at least another pair for ambience. Of course, to use all those with the Zoom, you'd need to have a mixer.

There are endless choices for vocals and guitar as well. So again, what are your goals?

No issues at all with dropouts and I don't really expect any.

So, I'm a musician, not a recording engineer. If I DO decide to go with an external mic, what are some good ones to consider, especially for someone on a budget (i.e., most any musician)?

Todd

I'd like to rephrase that question..

I've been reading that some new owners have had no problems for a full 4 hours of highest quality uncompressed recording. So to put the question the way you did gives the impressions that YOU WILL encounter dropouts, but we need to know how often -and I don't think that's correct.

I'd rather ask it this way... Have any owners here been able to determine what conditions bring about dropouts?

Got the manual! Some pretty amazing features.

But the "dropout" thing worries me. The audio is a steady stream that gets stored on a non-mechanical medium. Why should dropouts occur? MP3 is the least prone according to the manual, yet it is the only format that pre-processes the audio before saving. WAV is just in->buffer->save.

Have any owners here been able to push the limit to see how often dropouts can be expected?

BWF = Broadcast Wave File - a variant of normal wave file with extra info in it. This can include time info too (eg where the particular file should start in an edit decision list), as well as cues.

i'll try to answer a couple of these pending the review:

* startup/shutdown animation cannot be eliminated unless there is a secret key sequence not mentioned in the docs

* i just now turned mine on and timed and it took just under 10 seconds from hitting the switch until the recording screen. this is with a nearly empty 4gb sdhc card. i've noticed that different cards take longer at the 'now loading' box which consumes the majority of the startup time. one time i tried a fresh 8gb sdhc card and it took nearly 60 seconds to start up.

* hitting the 'play/pause' button during recording will record some sort of mark (they call it 'bfw'). also, an error or dropout will generate a mark.

/guy

Many of these questions are answered in the manual which has just been posted on Samson's web site.

www.samsontech.com/products/productpage.cfm?prodID=1916

The link is at the bottom of the page

Can someone comment on how would this unit be for stealth recording at concerts, with the unit in a pocket and small external mics? Compared to something like the iRiver H140 or a Hi-MD recorder?

Has anyone tried line-in recording from a loud source with a mic and battery module? And has anyone tried mic recording with LOUD music through external mics into Mic-in?

Is there a way to make track marks during recording?

The manual says that there's a choice of screen illumination times - 15" 30" on or off.

Startup animation isn't mentioned. In another place I've seen it said that startup time is about 25 seconds....

Can the screen illumination be turned off?

The Edirol R-09's latest firmware update has a new power-save feature that turns all lights off (or very dim) after a few seconds.

Can the startup-animation be turned off?

It's fun the first time, but usually you want to get going as quickly as possible.

I'm planning to buy this unit for recording various musical events with an external hi-fi mic and a battery box to power the mic properly.
My question is, has anyone any experience yet how sensitive the mic-in's preamp really is? Does the sound still get distorted in high levels (even if the indicator on the screen shows less than 0) and if it does, can I adjust the line-in volume from the unit itself? By reading the manual, I get the impression that only the mic-in volume can be adjusted with H2 and the line-in sound must be adjusted from the external source.
Many MiniDisc preamps can't handle a loud sound even if the indicator on the screen shows it's ok. Especially the bass gets distorted easily. That's why I usually use line-in jack of my MD to record loud concerts. It is not preamped and can handle really loud sound sources.
In case H2's line-in sound must be adjusted from the external source, I need to build a volume adjuster in my battery box...
Thanks for your help!

Soundfield reversed? Well, that rather depends on which way round you have it! The front is the side with the display, and that's the side that would normally be facing the sound source, according to the manual. So in that orientation, are left and right reversed? I can see that the "L" and "R" printed on the H2 would appear to be the wrong way round (should perhaps be R and L as you face the side with the controls, where the legend is) which would be a fairly silly mistake for them to make.

If you are using it to self-record, I can see the point of having the display facing you, but when recording others, you'd probably want to be facing them and seeing the display. So maybe you'd then be using the back mics (120 degrees) to record with.... all rather confusing!

yes, thanks barry. audio modulation compression at voice frequencies is a great boon to hams operating in ssb mode where such compression can add hundreds of pep watts to your signal. but then again, ssb is not the most intelligible of modes compared to am/fm! [g]

i'm beginning to suspect that in audio recording, like in digital photography, it seems best to leave as many settings at 'neutral' in the device itself and use your post-processing software which, at least in the photo world, mostly does a better job than the algorithms built into the device. sort of like shooting in raw mode, perhaps?

the exception seems to be with the wind noise which you seem to be saying it's best to deal with at the source if possible rather than leave for the post.

/guy

I got an H2 from a local retailer last weekend. Overall I'm favorably impressed so far. One odd "feature" it seems to have is that the soundfield is reversed unless it is mounted upside down. Not a big problem; it can also be corrected with editing software, but something the user needs to be aware of.

Barry: Many thanks for your very detailed and helpful advice! all best, Bob K.

Bob--For film work, I use a zeppelin/furry combination that cuts even very high winds. The setup consists of a cage and a fur cover. So you just need some airspace and an outer fur cover. For the H2, I'll just buy some nice fluffy fake fur at the fabric shop and cut a rectangle that can cover the foam windscreen. Fold the fur over the windscreen on the H2 with the furry side in and mark a line on both sides where the furry needs to be sewn for a snug fit. Sew along each line, cut off the extra material and turn so the furry side is out. It's just making a cap out of fake fur that slips over the foam windscreen.

Guy -- The low-cut filter helps cut out some (but not all) of the (low freq) wind noise. AGC always turned off, otherwise the gain is constantly ramping up and down--which sounds like crap. Compression should be done in post if needed. The limiter may be useful for rolling off loud transients (to prevent distortion), but I haven't checked the quality of the H2's limiter yet.

btw, someone named david asked that you check the preamps:

[quote=david]CHECK THE PREAMPS!!!!!!IT'S THE PREAMPS!!!!!!!! THE PREAMPS!!!! DID I MENTION THE PREAMPS? WHY NOT CHECK THOSE PREAMPS WHILE YOU'RE AT IT? David[/quote]

[g] /guy

Holy Moly - I look away for a couple of days and some of you guys have already written the review!

David B. suggested I answer all of these questions as a basis for my review -- since I won't be going to Hawaii right away, sounds like a good way to go. I'll try to add some insight into some of the issues like AGC, Compression, 2 track vs 4 track surround, etc. for you newbies out there. Don't know how deep I'll get into pushing the limits on formatting sd cards, tho the manual is explicit about using up to 4 Gig SDHC cards. We shall see.

Please keep posting your questions and comments.

And I'm dying to see that `ukulele relaxation video. "She used to sing to me by moonlight......"

cheers,

Mark

another long-time photographer but recording newbie here also. what would be the difference between using the lo-cut filter and the windscreen in actual practice?

also, i see nearly any serious recorder eschewing the agc control, but what about the compressor and limiter functions? i'm a ham and know what some of these terms mean in terms of voice audio but the manual doesn't have any specs, freqs plotted against time &c. they make it sound like the compressor is just a faster acting agc.

thanks,

ps many thanks to paul for posting the link to the manual. i was just on that page as early as 0600 this morning, so they must have added it today.

/guy

/guy

Barry: Can you share how you're going to make a furry for the H2? I'm an audio newbie, a professional photographer who got this recorder to do ambient sound for slide shows, and I've noticed with my previous setup that wind noise is really a problem.

I've had my H2 for a few days and I think it's an excellent inexpensive recorder. I had quality and design issues with the H4 and I see that the Zoom engineers have addressed most of the issue with the H2. Very easy to use and it has a good interface--both mechanically and the software. Handling noise can be a bit of an issue, so you have to use a firm steady grip, but I'd like to find some sort of shock mount/grip. The pre's are cheap, but workable--no big news for a $200 recorder. With the gain in the lo or mid positions, the noise floor is acceptable, in the hi position it becomes a little intrusive. It's pretty sensitive to wind noise, so the windscreen is a must and I'll be constructing a furry for 10mph+ winds. I bought a Crumpler Thirsty Al (L) pouch for the H2 and the fit is perfect. An external mic and a small preamp would make a great complement to the H2 if you're looking for the best quality, but I think most casual users will pleased with the quality of the built-in mics.

The H2 user manual is now available in PDF on the Samson web site (very bottom of the page):

http://www.samsontech.com/products/productpage.cfm?prodID=1916&brandID=4#servsupport

I just got mine today. Yes it's lightweight and may not last forever, but this is what I've been waiting for. I recorded a few songs and am still getting to learn the correct record volume settings and mic placement but I'm getting there quickly. The quality of the mics is pretty ok for what this is. The manual is easy to understand and uploading to a computer is a matter of going into the menu and setting a usb selection. then drag and drop.

The metronome feature has a volume control, setting for tempo of course and where to putt the emphasis (0/4, 1/4. 2/4 etc.) and more. That's very helpful if you want to record a song that will be used later in a real way not just to grab musical ideas.

The card it comes with set at the highest quality will only record 32 minutes. So getting a 4GB card will get you about 4 hours. For what I wanted this really is the bomb! 2 AA batteries and the right size card can record a complete show in uncompressed 24 bits!

No it ain't the quality of my better mics at home but their not too shabby and as a basic field recorder that is very easy to use and then load onto the computer, this is perfect. Let's just hope it doesn't break! It is quite lightweight - handle with care.

@Subvert: Thanks for sharing the bag angle! Surround Professionals has a combo headphone/mic setup with several mic-capsule options. I've had good results with my SP binaural mics.

I just received my H2 from J&R, and I'm very pleased so far. I don't have a lot of review material to contribute, but I thought I'd mention that it comes with a black drawstring bag to hold it and some accessories. It's more about containment than protection, though. The windscreen is almost humorously big. Not to say that it's TOO big, but slipped over the top of it, it makes me laugh a little. I've got a couple of 4gb SDHC cards, but I doubt I'll be testing it with them unless there's a great need as I pretty much dedicate them to photo work. (cheap PNY and a Lexar Platinum II).

It fits very snugly in a Lowepro camera pouch that I can't remember the model name or find on their site (it's got a "10" in the name, and Best Buy sells it). This is my regular camera pouch, so I won't be using it for that. If I want a bag for the H2, I'm sure I'll either use the included one, or something a little bigger to carry earbuds, extra memory and batteries. It's pretty lightweight plastic, but I'm not overly concerned about it getting mishandled, unlike my camera.

Eric, I think the H2 would be an excellent choice for your application. You can lock the controls once you start recording and have your levels set. I can't imagine any real technical issues other than the placement of the mic inputs. Since they're on the side, you'll need pocket space to accommodate that. I think it'd be just fine in a suitcoat pocket though. I think spending the extra on the Edirol would be overkill, and based on some of the issues in the reviews of that one, I picked the H2 myself obviously.

It IS really lightweight, almost toylike in density, but feels like very solid construction. I can't even imagine the H4 in comparison based on some of the reviews. The H2 is assembled with 4 small standard phillips screws, should you decide to open it up.

Now if someone made some binaural mics that are mounted on a nice set of earbuds for simultaneous monitoring, I'd be happy. I'm not really in the mood to do that kind of modification, but it may be inevitable.

I have been looking for a recorder to capture my sermon audio for podcasting. I am interested in possibly matching an H2 with a lapel microphone, and keeping the H2 in a suitcoat pocket. What would be some of your techinical suggestions for using the H2 in this manner? And how does it compare to the Edirol R-09?

Anyone have success using the Sandisk Ultra II SDHC 4GB card (SDSDRH-4096-901):

http://www.sandisk.com/Products/ProductInfo.aspx?ID=2201

ok. last comments until i find out something else worthwhile. aside from the sd cards i've found a couple of other glitches or bugs, seemingly very minor. at least 2, perhaps 3 times i've gotten the h2 so locked up i've had to pry out a battery to reset it. one occasion was trying out the 'normalize' function on a 45 second file. the function just hung for at least 10 minutes and you could not even turn the power off to break out of it.

in the good news department, when i hooked it up to my mac all behavior was exactly as expected with it mounting on the desktop as a drive and quicktime being able to play the files. exactly as if i'd mounted a flash card full of jpgs from my camera. i did not test the speed of transfer, but the manual only claims 'full' speed for the usb--not high--which is a slight disappointment.

i already like it much, much better than the h4. small enough to really fit into a shirt or jeans pocket, feels much more solid with all the switches and buttons feeling less fragile. and a honest-to-god tripod socket (albeit plastic) instead of that horrendous kludged rube goldberg velcor-strapped contraption that came with the h4 which i think i tossed away in disgust. i don't have any mics that require phantom power,

it was nice of the h4 to have 1/4" jacks since i could plug my guitar in without looking for an adaptor. but i'll take the smaller size tradeoff every time in return. and m nelson's review showed the frustration of the h4 menu system and trying to record multiple tracks. he has more staying power than i did--i gave up in disgust.

finally, just think how cute this think will look sitting on its handy little stand in front of my mac pro acting as an audio interface for garageband or voice recognition! i might look like a 50's radio announcer or scotty trying to talk into that mouse in 'the voyage home'. [g]

and i'll surely learn something by trying to create a video with 5.1 surround sound. i'm just now trying to learn video and picked this recorder because my canon hd camcorder doesn't have a mic input.

my bottom line: a more-than-worthy successor and $100 cheaper to boot. what's not to like?

ok, i have 3 sdhc card here with me at work, so i'll try them all:

btw, my firmware version is v1.02.

here's the info the h2 displays when you select 'sd card-->remain' from the menu with a quality of 48/24. first i quick-formatted each card in a digital camera. also, performed a very short read/write test on each card while in the h2:

patriot 8gb class6 sdhc: 7807MB / 7:53:46 / r-w OK
a-data 8gb class2 sdhc: 7709MB / 7:47:77 / r-w OK
transcend 4gb class6 sdhc: 3753MB / 3:47:46 / r-w OK

notes:

1) formatting sdhc cards in the h2 fails. when it failed, sometimes, but not every time, i had to do a quick format in one of my cameras
2) the recording quality setting gets reset when cards are changed in and out
3) i had one instance where the unit would not recognize a card after it had already been recognized once. but once i placed another card in and that one was recognized, it started recognizing the one that failed

conclusion(s):
i don't know if i would trust sdhc support 100% right now due to the unit not being consistent at recognizing a card that it had previously used and due to not being able to format sdhc cards. although my experience is that once a card is formatted elsewhere and recognized by the h2 and isn't moved in and out of service it is reliable. the few anomalies and inconsistencies i observed could just be my particular unit though and should be resolved once more people try sdhc cards.

looking forward to the review.

/guy

[mrbeachbum] i used a patriot 8gb sdhc card (class6, but i doubt that matters) i purchased locally at fry's electronics to see if the h2 would recognize it--which it did.

then i decided i wanted the 8gb card in my camera instead, so i swapped the card in my camera--a 4gb transcend sdhc class6 card--into the h2 where it is working just great.

i did have one ?bug?problem? though. thinking i might have some images left over from the camera on that card, i attempted to format the transcend sdhc card in the zoom h2.

not only did it refuse to format it, it rendered the card inoperable until i put it back in the camera and re-formatted it there.

so the bottom line that i see is that the h2 will read and write to sdhc cards up to 8gb in size, but my unit would not format a 4gb sdhc card.

good luck,

/guy

UpIrons, Did you see anything in the manual that allows you to record while listening to a previously recorded track?

Guy,

What brand of sdhc card did you use? I got mine now too and definitely want to upgrade to an 8GB card.

i put an 8gb sdhc card into the zoom h2 and it didn't recognize it until i powered it off and on again. it took nearly a minute at 'loading' and then recognized it just fine. over 12 hrs at the default recording mode and nearly 4 hours at absolute highest quality mode (wav96/24bit)

i already like it better than the h4 which felt cheaper--like it was plastic filled with air--and which you had to fight with the insert and remove batteries and sd cards.

out for testing ...

/guy

rec'd mine just now from sweetwater. shipped 23rd overnight fedex. i'm at work just about to open the box. still no pdf manual on the site.

what i want to know first is if it will take a sdhc card.

/guy

Keith,

I looked at your questions specifically and did a little test to see how much noise I would get by handholding:

I put the unit on medium gain and could hear when I tapped my finger on the base, but I was surprised to find that holding the microphones up to someone as if doing an interview did a good job of picking up their voice with virtually no noise from my handholding. If I touch the microphone screen at all it does make a lot of noise, as would be expected, but holding it by the base did not produce much in the way of noticeable noise in my opinion.

Also, it comes with a big foam windscreen that covers the entire top of the unit. I forgot to mention that in the accessories list in my previous comments. This will definitely come in handy. Plus it has a built in noise filter that you can turn on to reduce wind noise, etc... I still have to test that to see how well it works.

One more thing. One feature that I think might come in handy is that you can take a 4 channel recording and have it produce a single stereo recording for you on the fly and even has a 3D panning feature that lets you set the pan levels for this... I could see this coming in handy if you don't have the time to edit the 2 surround files together but still want to capture an entire room full of sound (or forest, or lake, etc).

That feature is explained well in the manual and was definitely something that could be useful in certain circumstances.

OK, here are some of my initial thoughts after playing with the H2 I got yesterday.

It does have a 1/4" thread hole. I didn't measure this but it does look like the standard size to me. The unit actually comes with a mic stand adapter that is a solid plastic tube (for lack of a better term)that resembles the bottom of a normal handheld microphone. You would basically thread this into the H2 and use it to slide into a standard mic stand. Nice!

However, my concern here is that normally a camera/camcorder with this same thread hole would have metal for the threading - but the H2 is only threaded plastic. This means you need to be very careful or you will (not may, but will) strip it easily. That is a little disappointing but I can live with it for the price.

As for the microphones. I have a lot of stuff to try out but so far I am very impressed with their quality. I find that the medium gain setting gives me the best response, at least for my ear and my preferences. In recording a full 4 channel surround, you end up with 2 files in a folder specific to 4 channel recording - this would allow you to control the front and rear channels and pan them anyway you want in your own audio editing software - I like that. For those of you wondering, it does NOT come with any software. I didn't expect that it would for that price and I have my own anyway so I didn't care.

The earbuds included are complete crap. This is a matter of opinion of course but I didn't care for them. But hey, they were free and it was nice of them to include them.

I was actually impressed with the menu system. It gives a nice little animation on boot and even says "goodbye see you soon" or something like that on exit, lol. It's fairly straight forward to go through the menu and I find it intuitive enough, however you may need a few scrolls through the manual just to figure out what all the options available to you are. The manual is also easy to follow and has plenty of screenshots, etc. I don't have an H4 but I know this was a big pet peeve with H4 owners so they seem to have improved on this a lot.

I will have to report back as far as battery life, etc. My 2 AA's held up fine for 1 night of playing around with no apparent drain yet, even with the backlight on for a bit so it seems like their published record time on batteries may in fact be accurate.

Metronome is a cool feature and actually has more options than I expected. Also the chromatic tuner could come in handy in a pinch but I wouldn't use it exclusively.

The unit itself is very lightweight, even with batteries. It comes with a little carrying case, ac adapter and a 512 sd card that is already formatted for use. Also has a USB cable, RCA cables, earbud headphones, a plastic stand for tabletop and a plastic mic stand mount.

The unit housing is all plastic and that may be the only real problem in the long run since it won't take the abuse that it is likely to see especially in the field where it is probably most intended for use. But it's priced reasonably enough that it's hard to really complain much at all.

Hope some of that info helps you if you are still on the fence about getting it. I am quite happy with it so far and can't wait to get down to business.

That hole is a 1/4 x 20 for mounting the H2 on a tripod. I think I read or saw somewhere that it has a small plastic stand but you can mount it on a standard camera tripod for recording too. Can't wait to see what you guys and gals that have them have to say!

According to this image at J&R, it has what appears to be a 1/4" thread hole, probably similar to that of a camcorder's.

http://www.jr.com/JRProductPage.process?Product=4167646

BTW, I got my from J&R Music and it shipped on the 21st.

Finally my H2 is supposed to arrive today via UPS. I can't wait to check it out. Seems like I've been waiting since January for this thing... Oh wait, I have!

CHECK THE PREAMPS!!!!!!
Almost all of these flash recorders suffer from awful signal to noise problems caused by the preamps. This is critical, esp for ENG: if you've gotta set your levels low to avoid clipping, you'd better be able to jack up the volume when u get back to the studio without a lot of hiss. 3 mics, 4 mics, whatever. IT'S THE PREAMPS!!!!!!!! THE PREAMPS!!!!
DID I MENTION THE PREAMPS? WHY NOT CHECK THOSE PREAMPS WHILE YOU'RE AT IT?

when you review, please make a comment about battery clicking which is present in the H4, and also whether level setting with external mics is an issue or not.

Is it possible to play back a track in memory while recording a new track with the mic? This is the only thing holding me back. I would definitely prefer the H2 over the H4 in looks and function but, for me, playback while recording is needed and would be an amazing feature in the h2!

Does the H2 actually have the 4 channel (track ) capabilites like the H4? That didn't seem to be clear in the specs.

O'Reilly: Have you received your test unit to look at yet?
I have a Yamaha AW1600G digital recording system and am interested in how I can interface the H2 with it to burn CDs. Thanx

I'll be especially interested to know:

1. If it will be possible to hand hold the unit without picking up too much noise from...... your hands.
2. If you mount it on a tripod will you be able to ride the gain on one of those record level up/down key pads without adding an audible sound to the recording. At least they didn't bury the record gain controls in a menu like they did on the h4.
3. I love the idea of it being able to record a surround pick-up pattern, but will humans be able to use it without hold it on some weird boom pole like device?

Keith

Please read the Specifications page of the Zoom H4.

http://www.samsontech.com/products/relatedDocs/H4_manual.pdf

There is no mention of Frequency Response and no mention of Signal to Noise Ratio.
These are basic specs for ANY recording or playback device.
The H2 manual isn't out yet.

Before you jump at the H2 please read these serious (and not subjective) technical tests done on the H4:
http://www.sonicstudios.com/zoomh4rv.htm#spectrum
How come I can't find any BASIC specs from Zoom on Frequency Response and Signal to Noise ratio on either of these models? The word "brilliant" doesn't cut it. Since the H2 appears to be a cheaper spin-off of the H4, I would bet it ain't gonna get any better.

Well, july has passed by... let's hope it shows up in early August.

1. Does H2 support the effects that H4 has?
2. Is the power adapter universal (220/110 AC In) ?
3. Does the bundle include Cubase LE ?
4. Does H2 have built in speakers for playback?

If the H2 is mounted on a tripod or mic stand while recording a loud rock band rehearsal and positioned in the center of the band as Zoom's diagram suggests, how much rumble or floor noise will the mics pick up through the tripod or stand without being shock mounted?

@Steve: Zoom told me last week that the “first shipment is expected late July/early August,” adding, “You will be the first reviewers to get a unit!” So please keep the questions coming. Interest like this helps us get new gear earlier.

I've been told by one supplier that the release date on the H2has been moved back to October. It's a rumor, but from a retailer who is anxious to sell and says he can't get product until October. Has anyone info to confirm or deny that? Thanx

I can't wait for this to come out... Looks like they delayed it until late August now but they added a 4th mic and apparently added some accesories to boot. I plan to use this mainly for recording nature sounds but I might even do some ukulele recording for my relaxation videos depending on just how well it performs. Once I get my hands on one I'll be sure to comment back here and let everyone know how it works out for me - hoping others will do the same!

There appear to be many comment on noise when using The H4 preamps (even from the LCD backlight and from the battery power ). Does the H2 have similar problems? I have been recording live concerts using a pair of PZMs, an analog mic preamp, PCI sound card (Echo Indigo) and a laptop. Lost eight minutes of the last concert (nine upset musicians and a mad conductor!!) when the software died and some embedded noise - pops. I am considering the H2 as a backup.

How would we attach this "mic" device to a standard mic stand?
The wierd hand obviously does not come in the box. Also, is there a way to connect it to a non-computer recorder or device to burn CDs from the files? (Like a Yamaha AG1600). Thanks

One of the illustrations on the Samson site show the recorder sitting in the middle of a group of musical instruments, recording in surround sound. I'm interested in knowing how it would perform as a conference recorder, sitting in the middle of a conference table. Also how would it function as a podcast recorder? Would it pick up too much ambient noise, or can that be muted?

@Francis:

there are 4 mic capsules insteed of 3.

Interesting! Thanks for pointing out that change. The diagrams have changed as well. However, I was assuming the H2 would capture surround sound with three mics by using the Ambisonic “native B-format” technique of pairing two figure-8 mics with an omni, so maybe we were both right.

There are photos of homebrew B-format mic arrays here.

I have been puzzling over te specs of the Zoom H-2 ever since seeing the original press release from Samson. 3 Mic capsules? How on earth do they get the 4 channels mode they mention in a following paragraph.

Well, All seems to have been made clear in the last few days though, as their new page - which looks exactly like the old one appart from saying there are 4 mic capsules insteed of 3. This makes much more sense to me, in fact I just ordered one.

It's one of downsides of the web that mistakes can be and are propogated widely and by experts and amatuers alike. I wonder how all the "exlusive first look" reviewers will now admit they just read Samsons specs and never queried the strange 3 capsules 4 channel device. At least you senses something is odd by saying "The most unusual feature of the H2 is its triple mic capsule" and to be fair you don't pretend its a review but just an announcement, so you are definatley in the clear!

Is it possible to record with the 1/8" Line In and Mic's simultaneously? Can the 1/8" Line In be used when recording direct to DAW? Thanks for all the great info!

I'd like to know how well the agc functions. I didn't see any particulars in the h4 article on this point, and I'm guessing the h2 doesn't offer compression?

Regards,

Matt

Is it possible to play back a track in memory while recording a new track with the mic? What are the limitations of the DAW interface features?