Zoom H2 Digital Recorder Details

You can hear examples of the Zoom H2 in action at my podcast, with notations of what modes I used at:

http://www.midnightrunner.mypodcast.com

Also, I will confirm that the mic inputs are indeed too noisy for use. That was a major disappointment. Build quality is also very light and cheap -- especially the hooks on the battery door.

If you are wavering between the H2 and the H4, then go with the H4 due to it's XLR mic inputs. I wish I had, although the H2 is a decent value. The H4 is a far better solution for podcasting, due to the ability to hook up mics. Also, the front/rear 90 degree and 120 degree mics make interviewing people a bit of a pain because of the difference in gain and bass output between the front and back of the unit. You can get quite different sounding audio depending on which side of the mic a person happens to be talking into (whether you're in mono or not). I find I get the best "interview" results if I hold the unit in the palm of my hand and point the side (front face 90 degree mic side) toward people's mouth. The front 90 degree mic setting sounds best.

De nada. Of my questions, only the ripping from vinyl question remains. I've tried line in from my Denon amp (hifi setup) and even at Low volume (L of LMH gain options) it was nearly too much, so I'll have to correct that.

Question : how do I choose the kbps ?

@Uzine: Thanks for tracking down the info on memory cards.

Regarding using the H2 as an external audio interface: I don’t know if your Mac is one of the models without analog audio inputs, but I was surprised to discover that the built-in inputs on my G5 tower had better quality and lower latency than a $150 USB audio interface I’d bought.

One cool thing you can do with the H2 on a Mac, though, is aggregate its outputs with the Mac’s built-in ones, giving you true four-channel output for monitoring your surround-sound recordings. (You’ll need four speakers as well, of course.) See my article “Build a Mondo Audio Interface — for Free.”

Just got this from Zoom Corp :

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: ZOOM info
Date: 2008/7/28
Subject: RE: WHAT ABOUT OTHER SD CARDS FOR ZOOM H2

Dear Sir,

Thank you for your inquiry.

Even though we haven't confirmed the actual performance on the H2, all SDHC cards are compatible
theoretically.
So far, we haven't found any problem with all SDHC cards.

Anyway, we will forward your feedback to the H2 development team for future reference.

Sincerely yours,
ZOOM Corporation.

Zoom seems to be lazy updating their info on compatible SD cards. On 2090.org (click my URL) I read about SDSDRH 004G A11 being compatible with Zoom HD. However, in the shop, the sell SDSDRH 004G E11 (Belgium). Sandisk doesn't list Zoom / Samson in its list of companies to detect compatibility.

So is it compatible yes or no, please ?

http://www.sandisk.com/Products/ProductInfo.aspx?ID=2201

First of all congrats all at O'Reilly. Big up from Belgium !!

I'm worried by Leonardo's remark that "external MIC/LINE input has some serious internal noise and way too low signal -2.0 dBu LINE clipping level shortcomings needing user consideration".

Other comments weren't encouraging either, and Shaggy's & Trevor's were unclear (too technical + I'm not a native English speaker). Barry S & Ozpeter's were more comforting but technical too.

Some people even recommended using the headphone out ... surely that creates loss ?

What are the experiences please ?

Reason for my questions : my purpose is to use the H2 for voice interviews whilst driving ... but also to use it as an interface between my hifi amp and my iBook (slow usb apparently) so as to be able to load music tracks FROM VINYL into Peak / Audacity when I edit my radio show.

Can I use the Zoom as a direct gobetween or does it have to record first after which I can load into my Mac ? Can I rip vinyl at 320 kbps or will the 2GB file limit be a nuisance ?

Also, is the H2 doomed to be full speed usb instead of hi speed usb, or can that be changed by new firmware ? By an upgrade in the model ? Is Zoom considering a totally new model ?

Another thing : what about pause, fast forward or rewind ? I think DXACE1 is right.

Finally, the firmware download page seems to be Windows only ? What about Mac (OS 10.4) ?

Oh and Tim, what exactly is "the mic adaptor handle" ? Can you please explain it to a foreigner ? Which picture is it on http://www.zoom.co.jp/english/products/h2/ ?

All in all, a lot of what is discussed here can be avoided by better interfaces and beter manuals. In general, Zoom's engineers look too much like engineers to me, who don't know what people DO with their gear. ALL THESE DEVICES ARE WAY TOO TECHNICAL. Engineers and reviewers should think in the "plug & play" intuitive interface spirit of Mac. And read Plain English dot CO dot UK ;-)

BEWARE -- Well, the H2 arrived Friday. The mic adaptor handle FELL APART after 2 hours. I couldn't believe how badly designed it is, unless of course it was carefully designed TO fall apart. The work and care for the rest of the H2 is really beautiful. It's easy to fall in love with this thing, more than any other gadget I have. So that's why I'm here. Please fix the mic handle, or risk the loss of your H2 as it falls clean off the stem of the handle to the ground.
I drilled 2 holes in the disk where the male thread is embedded, and another 2 under the bottom of the narrow end. Then put 2 cable ties from top to bottom. Another 2 cable ties were sacrificed for there ratchet heads, to zip onto the bottoms of the cable ties that are already running through the length of the handle. ps. The holes should just be big enough so the ties will fit.

Hello,
great place here.
i'm considering buying de H2, i'm just afraid to be disappointed by the sound quality. i know it's relative and difficult to discuss but for comparison i'm usually recording a bit of everything, mostly acoustic instruments such guitar banjo and voice... with a Rode NT4 plugged into an old M-Audio USB DUO soundcard.
the NT4 is not an excellent mic but it's enough for me and i recorded several albums with just the cheap NT4.

does anyone know if there will be a huge difference of quality between the H2 and the Rode NT4 ?

also, what about the latency of the H2 when used as a soundcard (i use Logic and Ableton Live on Mac)??

thanks for any help and advice :)
stéphane

The article Mark L cites is “How to get the best from the Zoom H2,” written by OzPeter, who’s left many helpful comments on this page as well.

Metal Man said:

I just got the Zoom H2 and want to use it to record my friends in a very loud local band.

Zoom has good advice at Zoom Gear & Home recording " how to get the best from the zoom H2.

And for attaching to body I found a belt clip camera case that the H2 slides right into. I just cut off the rubber strap. I saw a belt case on ebay as well. You could try a digital camera bag and alter it if necessary. They are cheap at local mega chain store.
Mark L

I did purchase an H2 and did bench testing same as was done in the H4 partial review mentioned. Found H2 somewhat improved in performance, and especially useful if solely using the H2's internal microphones.

However, for external MIC/LINE input, the H2 has some serious internal noise and way too low signal -2.0 dBu LINE clipping level shortcomings needing user consideration.

While not motivated to do a full technical H2 review, initial findings with noise graphs posted on newsgroup threads can be found linked on my tips page in the deck models info section at www.sonicstudios.com/tips.htm

Hi all,

I did a direct recording from a mixer and imported it into cubase, the audio spectrum in cubase seems to be compressed. The compressor i checked has been switched off. Anyone has similar results?

I just got the Zoom H2 and want to use it to record my friends in a very loud local band.

Can someone please give me some advice on the settings I should use to record very loud live music.

Also, does anyone have a creative method of attaching the Zoom H2 to their body so I don't have to hold the recorder during the show.

I know I could put it in a mic stand but don't want to turn away for a minute and have someone walk off with the recorder. The H2 is so small and very easy for someone to put it in their pocket and walk away.

Thanks

I got the H2 about a month ago with the intent of doing some random recording. The most important will be getting a set of "interviews" with my 79 year old father, recording for grandchildren and the family as a whole his great stories in his own voice.

That said, it did arrive in plenty of time to take to South By Southwest last week. I wound up recording 11 shows over three separate nights. The first show wasn't that loud so I wasn't too worried, but it seemed that each got progressively louder and in smaller and smaller venues.

Each time, set at the low setting and the "gain" at 100, 44.1k sampling and 16 bit WAV, it worked like a charm. I'd start it up, stick it in my short pocket and not think about it till the show was over. I was most impressed that at no time did it saturate either the A/D converter or the microphones.

The two last shows I got were in a small venue with very loud rock bands playing. I had earplugs and it was still loud. I was certain the recordings would be toast, but was pleased to see these were, for all intents and purposes, perfect levels.

The recordings do need post-processing (adjusting equalization, normalizing the two channels and amplifying to appropriate levels), but everything worked like a charm. In short, if you are unsure of the abilities of the H2 to handle loud source sound, you shouldn't be.

@AG:

It has "COMP 3 (DRUMS)" setting.

Other readers report (see OzPeter's posts here especially) that the compressor is more of an effect than a recording tool, because it operates on the signal after it has been digitized. Try recording with the M or L settings and the input at 100 for optimal quality.

Hello..basically I'm looking to get either the h2 or h4, I'd want it for two reasons:

1. To record band rehearsals/gigs (from what I gather the h2 would be best).

2. To record vocals to put over previously recorded music. From what I understand the h4 is suited to this being a multi track recorder, but I wanted to know if you can play things back and listen to them while recording through the h2 as I am leaning towards this model.

Alternatively if it would be possible to hook up the h2 to pro tools and record directly onto pt tracks using the h2 as an interface..either way would be fine.

I have looked around and I can't seem to find the answers..

Joe

Thanks David,
I've downloaded the H2 manual and found a page that shows using the AGC/compressor/limiter function settings. It has "COMP 3 (DRUMS)" setting. I think I'll end up getting one and hope it would work.
Thanks

@Simon:

I'm going to Tokyo on March 20 and planning to buy an H2 while I'm there. Does anyone have any tips on where best to look?

Several of the other major stops on the Yamanote line, which circles Tokyo, have become "mini Akihabaras." Yodobashi Camera in Shinjuku and Kichijoji is a multi-story tech heaven. I've also been to big music stores in Nakano and Shibuya. I'll ask around and report back.

UPDATE, 2008-03-05: My gadget-enthusiast friend Tomoaki said Yodobashi Camera is the best place for a tourist to pick up an H2. He also pointed me to a site called Kakaku.com that lists prices for the H2 at online Japanese stores. Interestingly, the best price today (20,582 yen) equates to $199 in USD, about the same the H2 costs in America.

Hi, I'm going to Tokyo on March 20 and planning to buy an H2 while I'm there (should be cheaper than in Australia, where I live). Does anyone have any tips on where best to look? I know Akihabara is the big electronics district, but none of the Akiba individual shop websites seem to gave the H2 listed among their products. Any suggestions gratefully received

Thanks
Simon

@AG:

Would the H2 be a good choice to record my drum set?

Searching this page for "drum" (press Control-F or Command-F in your browser) turns up several examples of people happily recording drums with the H2. I also noticed a recent ad with Peter Erskine saying he uses an H2 to record his drum classes. I think of him as a crisp jazz drummer rather than a skin smasher, though.

Would the H2 be a good choice to record my drum set? I never record my practice sessions and would like to do so. I need a device that can handle the sound range such as drums, any advice is welcome.
Thanks!
AG

@John:

We've reviewed seven other portable recorders so far, and have four more on the way. See our forum page for links.

Does anyone here have any comments on how the H2 (or H4) compares to any of these more expensive recorders:

- Sony PCM-D50
- Olympus LS-10
- Marantz PMD-620
- Edirol R-09
- Yamaha Pocketrak 2G
- M-Audio MicroTrack II
- TASCAM DR-1

Interested in primarily sound quality but also interface elegance/ease of use.

Thanks,

John

Hi

I am considering the Zoom H2 recorder. I am a serious amateur singer and I use the cheap and simple Olympus Digital Voice recorder (cost about $40). I like it because it has a built in speaker and it records farily well. Below are samples of me singing using the recorder. The first was in a church with the recorder about 15 feet away. The second in a small restaurant about 8 ft away. I cleaned both of them up using CakewalkPyro (declick feature)

http://www.hazardsolutions.com/UnaFurtivaLagrima.mp3

http://www.hazardsolutions.com/WhenSunnyGetsBlue.mp3

So the question I have for you if whether people think that the Zoom H2 is substantially better quality recorder (and better suited for recording me singing) than the cheap one I am using. I would like high quality recordings of my singing to share.
Thanks!
Art

Hi

I am considering the Zoom H2 recorder. I am a serious amateur singer and I use the cheap and simple Olympus Digital Voice recorder (cost about $40). I like it because it has a built in speaker and it records farily well. Below are samples of me singing using the recorder. The first was in a church with the recorder about 15 feet away. The second in a small restaurant about 8 ft away. I cleaned both of them up using CakewalkPyro (declick feature)

http://www.hazardsolutions.com/UnaFurtivaLagrima.mp3

http://www.hazardsolutions.com/WhenSunnyGetsBlue.mp3

So the question I have for you if whether people think that the Zoom H2 is substantially better quality recorder (and better suited for recording me singing) than the cheap one I am using. I would like high quality recordings of my singing to share.
Thanks!
Art

Please ignore previous comment - have worked it out!

It's the difference between pressing the button (which takes you back to the beginning of the track) and holding it down, which does the 1 or 5 second jump thing. And it's much faster in WAV than MP3.

Hi there

More on rw/ff in playback.

I'm using my H2 for journalistic stuff, and checked on here about rw/ff before buying - and most of you seem to be able to do it!

I've tried recording in WAV and mp3 mode - just very short test recordings - and mine just automatically jumps back to the beginning of each track, rather than doing the 1 or 5 sec jumping thing, which people reported - & which is pretty essential for my work!

My H2 has firmware version 1.10

Am I doing something wrong? Is there a trick I'm missing?

Thanks in advance for any advice!

I just got the recorder a few days ago, and have been using it a lot ever since. Seems extremely (maybe too) convenient to be able to go record anything you so desire anywhere you may happen to be!

I'm extremely impressed about the sound quality. I have another reasonably expensive condenser mic plugged up to my computer for acoustic and vocal recording (not very convenient and not the least bit portable), and after a little messing around my acoustic/vocal demos on the H2 already sound better quality, and I've been messing around tryin' to perfect things with my other condenser for ages!

I'm not going to extreme professional quality with my acoustic demos, just good solid sound quality, and the H2 provides to an extent that is borderline professional anyways. I'd almost say that a bit of work this recorder could be all you need to record something releasable!

My main disappointment with it is the lack of a rudimentary multi-track in the device for overdubbing and layering, which I think would have been easy (if not, possible) to implement.

One solution for me has been to put what I've just recorded onto my ipod, put on headphones and listen back to it, and as I am doing so record to the H2, a new solo, vocal, drum, whatever...you could construct a whole track this way. Afterwards I'd put it all together in Cubase SX and toy around with it. Just a slight annoyance though.

The four track recording worked very nicely in a flat jam. Like the best products the H2 is basically as powerful as you are willing to make it. I think if you put in the work the results will come through. Excellent device. I don't know about that limited frequency range thing mentioned, gotta read up on it more.

9.5/10, highly recommended.

Yes, auto record is a "one shot" thing - at present. A recent firmware upgrade for the Zoom H4 provided for auto-record to be "multi-shot", if I recall correctly, and hopefully this facility may find its way to the H2 in due course.

Sadly, I to have concluded that the auto record doesn't return to record standby after it records something. I tried all last night to figure it out. In the end you have to push the red button again to arm the auto record! Didn't those old cassette dictation devices do this? What gives?

THANK YOU to Mark Nelson and the people at O'reilly for the awesome review and service!

Thanks for the note! This is my favorite type of comment to get -- someone discovers something on the site, gets inspired to go deeper, and then shares his or her findings with the rest of us.

I bought my H2 last night and spent all day with it…amazing sound quality!!! Not being being so technically savvy and generally finding manuals a drag it was a bit of a slog…there are several videos on YouTube which help you get going. Once I got plugged in I was blown away. I had tuned my guitar and when I played the first chord I just about fell over: I could hear every string, full deep bottom, rich mids and bright highs, including the one string which was not properly tuned. I was rather disappointed to figure out that the “2-Tracks” don’t seem splitable to allow for any overdubbing; I guess they’re just there for getting all four channels going, still, there’s always Garage Band for other tracks …speaking of which, this unit works great as USB mike/interface. Once you get used to it the interface is pretty easy to use...after 4-5 hours of figuring things out (still have a way to go with the filing system and various features) I was having the time of my life…guess I better remember that I also bought this for research interviews!
The only other thing to mention is a great big THANK YOU to Mark Nelson and the people at O'reilly for the awesome review and service! All the best in 2008!
David Lertzman, University of Calgary

Hi everyone. We just got the new Sony PCM-D50 handheld recorder in for review, and we'd love to get your thoughts; they really helped shape our H2 review.

The D50 is a much more affordable version of Sony's flagship D1. You can read more details and leave comments here.

Thanks!

Thanks Greenmachine,

However, the statement in the document you cite is actually wrong. The soundscape is recorded CORRECTLY with the REAR mics (those with an included angle of 120 degrees),
NOT with the FRONT mics. (The terms front and rear are defined on page 5 of the Operation Manual.) Here is the sentence in question:

"L/R Posi
If you don't have that option you need to download and install the latest firmware from http://www.zoom.co.jp/english/download/software/h2.php - basically it allows you to set the left/right soundscape correctly when you record with the rear mics facing the performers."

====================

Doug, this well written guide explains why the digital level control shouldn't be used ("always use 100"). Basically you'll just decrease the dynamic range in one way or another if you use any other setting. Same goes for the "H" setting.

http://www.2090.org/zoom/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=9745

If you upgrade to at least the 1.10 firmware, there's a menu option to choose whether to record from the player's (default) or listener's perspective. This basically swaps the channels.

greenmachine | November 16, 2007 02:19 AM

Yeah, I've left a comment too. I don't get the bit about needing to record only louder sounds with the internal mics (recording a barely audible ticking clock in a quiet room works very well, for heaven's sake!), and the line input is demonstrably free of significant distortion if levels are kept below full scale.

I left some comments in that Transom article to catch them up on how to use the line input effectively. For hose who read the zoom forum, none of it should be news to you.

I did it to make sure that this device is appreciated for what it can do. The more it sells, the more zoom will want to offer firmware upgrades I assume.

Thanks Ozpeter. Since you been doing a real great job at this forum, I'll take yout word for it.

I Had the same feeling... odd really :( I've read some well done pieces on Transom.

I just saw a review of the zoom H2 and I feel it shows some real ignorance. Here's the link: http://www.transom.org/tools/recording_interviewing/200711_zoom_h2/
I have used external preamps and a limiter with great success. I too have wave files to show you. Mine don't peak out. Obviously the writer of that article is doing something wrong.

Don't believe everything you read on the net - especially when it's posted by someone trying to sell something. Several of those specs are meaningless and some downright wrong. My H2 makes ultrasonic recordings very happily in 24/96 - I have an ultrasonic rat deterrent device which goes way above 40kHz and the H2 records it quite happily up to the Nyquist cutoff point. Or just jangle some keys, which is an even simpler way of generating ultrasonic frequencies. (I can't hear the recording but frequency analysis in Audition shows them plainly).

Is it true that the frequency range of h2 is just 50-12khz??? I got the figure from a comparison chart of it with another recorder at

www.djdeals.com/dynasonicPDR1.htm

I hope it's not correct but if so, that's a big letdown. 12khz limit at the top end is somewhat inadequate for any serious recording for me, I'd prefer at least 15khz. That means what I suspected was right after all - I noted on my Sept 13 post that I noticed the h2 clipped at a slightly lower frequency level at the high end compared to h4 on one of the mp3 samples linked here earlier. Can anyone confirm this?

Aside from what Kevin wrote, I assume you're plugging into line in, right? NOT the mic input!

Check the overview and lower the CD output
http://www.2090.org/zoom/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=9745

I just got my H2. Everything works fine exept that my device cannot record directly from a - normal - cdplayer on the line input without serious clipping. I use record level 100, no limiter. The vu meter is at its maximum. When i lower the signal to 20-30 the vu metre is in the safe area but the clipping just goed on.

I know some cdplayers have a high output signal but the amplyfier i use has no problem at all with this cdplayer.

The clipping is so severe i cannot use the recordings. Is this normal?

On the FF/RR issue discussed a while back, I have
sent a message to Zoom informing them that this is
clearly more pronounced when trying to fast forward
or rewind on mp3, than with .wav files....

I got my H2 yesterday. Has anybody else noticed a sort of fluttering sound appearing with the mic gain in the L position and phones volume over 80?

You are right, that is one creepy hand. Looks like a dude's hand with a french manicure.....

Doug, this well written guide explains why the digital level control shouldn't be used ("always use 100"). Basically you'll just decrease the dynamic range in one way or another if you use any other setting. Same goes for the "H" setting.

http://www.2090.org/zoom/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=9745

If you upgrade to at least the 1.10 firmware, there's a menu option to choose whether to record from the player's (default) or listener's perspective. This basically swaps the channels.

After setting the main level control (H/M/L) it is possible to make fine adjustments with the buttons. They bring up a scale which goes from zero to 127. Nowhere in the manual is there any statement of what this scale represents in terms of decibels. I can tell by watching the meters just how much I would like to raise or lower the level, so it would be very helpful to know how to do that on the zero to 127 scale, for example, how many numbers on that scale represent exactly six dB? Knowing this would avoid trial and error adjustments during a session! Also, for those using the 90-degree mics only, note that all of your recordings will be mirror-image, and have to be channel swapped in the computer! It might be good if the manual made mention of this.

I don't remember where, probably on the zoom forum here:
http://www.2090.org/zoom/bbs/viewforum.php?f=15
Someone discussed the issue of how to avoid losing all your settings very time you format the card. There's a location on the card where all your settings are stored (maybe it's one of the folders in its entirety?). Just copy that and save it somewhere on your computer. That way you can reformat the card for use with other devices like your camera, and before using in the H2, take the card and overwrite it with what you saved. It will take a minute to do that, but not only will startup be quicker, you'll also have the settings you last used.

Agnes, the settings you mention are for recording, not playback - have you got the playback level up? Is there a file to be played showing on the display? When you press play, does the playback time counter run and do the meters more?

I hope one of you can help. I just got my new Zoom H2, but the playback mode won't work, even with the MIC GAIN set to high and recording sensitivity way up as well. Thanks!
Agnes

Shaggy,

I think I may have found at least some explanation. At first I'd formatted the SD card (2GB 150x) in my laptop as FAT32. The H2 seemed to have no problem with that but I was getting 25-30 secs startup time. I then tried formatting it in the H2, and noticed it formatted it as FAT (not FAT32). Since then I'm getting a startup time of 6 secs - with the same card.
The most annoying thing for me is the way the settings are stored on the card, and you lose them every time you reformat (unless you manually backup the SYS folder and then restore afterwards). I mean, really... that is just so impractical.
Regards, Ben

My start-up is only a few seconds @ most with the 1GB Card providing I am recording in WAV. Not shure if it is best to
just delete the files after computer transfer or to re-format

Ben,

I too have notice various times for start-up and track writing before one can start recording a new track...

If a new card is used then a little time is required for
the unit to format and build-up the folder directories.

I know that MP3's take longer to write than WAV's

The time may also increase as the card fills up, and
perhaps file fragmentation may play a part as well

I have not yet tried larger / faster cards ( I only have used the 256 & 1GB Slow Class 1 cards ) and also curious
as to what performance can be expected with the larger cards

How long is yours taking to start up? I’m using a 2GB 150x SD card and it’s taking 25 to 30 seconds! This with firmware 1.20. Very annoying... Regards, Ben

here's a great idea. Build on these and then attach the mic stick at the bottom.

http://www.2090.org/zoom/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=9931

The mic adapter/stick works for me. ate least after I modified it with a bushing to make it solidly fixed to the screw threads.

On a different tack. How does everybody deal with handling noise on the H2? Occasionally it is necessary ot follow the sound source without a plug in mic. Are there any good tips for reducing the sound of hands getting to the H2 mics?

Have you seen the preamps by Chris Church? He has a store on eBay. Also check the Sound Professionals website.

No US dist I could find but this is commercial :)

http://www.felmicamps.co.uk/products/fel3.5series.html

I hope to find the time to build & test some simple portable
low noise microphone preamp circuits I have googled as I have not yet found a small inexpensive commercial unit ...

http://www.redcircuits.com/Page49.htm

http://www.geocities.com/ferocious_1999/md/micpreamp2.html

http://www.epanorama.net/circuits/micamp.html

http://www.zen22142.zen.co.uk/Circuits/Audio/ecmmic.html

Ooo thank you Gershon

maybe this will help?

http://www.2090.org/zoom/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=9910&highlight=designed+preamp

Help! Does anyone have a schematic they can share for a PCB for making a really small, portable preamp so I can stick my Soundman OKM II mics in, to the H2 for recording really quiet sounds or occasions where I need to adjust the recording volume? Please post here or email me (leewong08@yahoo.com)

It would be much appreciated... Thank you!

It may be that few people can hear the difference between recordings made at 16/44.1 compared to 24/96, however, I suspect that 24/96 gives you much more latitude in editing, particularly in adjusting gain, adding effects, etc. As long as you're not anticipating the need to increase gain or add any effects or mix with other signals, then 16/44.1 may be the most efficient parameters. But if you're planning any significant editing, you may get better results with 24/96.

I just tried the H2 with a "USB Device Copier" which in theory avoids the need for a PC when transferring to a drive, but it doesn't work. Then again, I've yet to find anything the copier does actually work with!

Software update 1.20 just issued on the Zoom site. Improves USB connectivity with Mac

Martin,

No. You need a computer.

Hi all.

I have a lacie mobile hard drive with usb 2 connection.
Is it possible to do a storage of my H2's data straight to the hard drive by not using my laptop?

Thanx in advance

Days back I tried to post this link here and it didn't appear -

http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/9/22/1451533/Sampleone.mp3 was recorded on an H2 using its built in mics only in 4ch H100 16/44.1 - the recording was made with the H2 suspended above a 3500 sold-out concert hall, and is of one of the world's most famous choirs with organ. The recording has been post-produced in Reaper - I'm more interested in the sound after production rather than straight from the H2, as that's what my clients here. IMHO it's a pretty amazing result!

martind28lh - yes, Audacity or Wavosaur or any wave editor would be able to change levels of wave files. Personally I use Reaper. For speech recording, a great program for flattening out differences in levels is "Levelator", freeware which Google would find. It's got no settings, so even I get good results from it!

http://theaudiocritic.com/blog/index.php?op=ViewArticle&articleId=41&blogId=1 is one link. The actual article is copyright and can't be posted. But there's some more detail in a website at http://www.bostonaudiosociety.org/explanation.htm - and much discussion on 'audiophile' websites!

"There's a great deal of controversy about 44.1 vs 96 happening on the net right now! A reputable study has just shown that testing a large sample of listeners over an extended period, people of all kinds cannot tell the difference between 16/44.1 and 24/96."

That's a very good point, Ozpeter. Can you point to some of the websites? I'm curious about whether they are talking about specific recorders (such as the H2) or a more generalized situation.

I've gone on record stating that I've heard the dif between two audio file formats that were identical (in my Korg MR 1 review) as well as not being able to hear the dif between 48 and 96 files from other flash recorders and being able to discriminate same with high end gear... so much for consistency. ;-}

Though, to be sure, a fairly high percentage of people can't tell the difference between red and white wine in a blindfold test.

cheers,

Mark

Hi Simon,
good point, if I would say "recorded with Zoom H2", most bookers won't have an idea I'm afraid, so that's why we say on the website DAT. So I shared some information only for insiders with you guys ;-)
By the way it was in WAV 44.1 KHz mode.
kind regards
Manuel

@Manuel, so why do you tell on your site it is recorded with DAT tape?

Thanks Dosdan. I was worried that, as Kingston was not on the H2 list, there may have been a problem. I'll get two 1Gb cards now.

Hi all,
I have the Zoom H2 for several weeks now and it's great. We recorded a live-demo via the line-input directly from the sound board and the result is great. You could listen to some fragments on our website www.t-o-i.nl click on MEDIA and then DEMO.
Please sign our guestbook!
kind regards
Manuel

I've been using a Kingston 2GB SD card for the last 6 weeks with my H4 and had no problems, so I'd be surprised if it didn't work in a H2.

Thanks Ozpeter for your advice re using agc. Do you (or does anyone else) know if it is possible to increase the level of a wav file recording using Audacity once it's downloaded to the PC?

Has anyone used the Kingston SD cards in the H2? and, if so, did they work ok?

Just to clarify, I'm using two Superlux S241/U3 mics through 2 Studio Projects vtb-1 preamps. Not exactly super portable, but it's getting me some really nice results. Neat little portable rig. Beats bringing a laptop!

Adrian, I've been doing just that. Since I have an 8GB SDHC card, and a fast card reader, I don't see why not. (unless of course it's just a waste of space if it's useless) Anyone out there have any hard data on this?

As a rule I record at 24/44.1 and mix to 16/44.1. Regarding the Zoom H2 I gather that due to self-noise there's little to gain from 24 bit. at least when using the internal preamps. However, is 24 bit justified when using a good external pre into the H2 line input?

There's a great deal of controversy about 44.1 vs 96 happening on the net right now! A reputable study has just shown that testing a large sample of listeners over an extended period, people of all kinds cannot tell the difference between 16/44.1 and 24/96. And I certainly can't. However, it's been said that the chips in the H2 are optimised for 48kHz, so there might be some merit in trying that. Personally I don't plan to.

Ozpeter, U sound'n techie again, ..

what's your take on 44.1 / 48 vs 96kHz settings ?

http://www.tweakheadz.com/16_vs_24_bit_audio.htm
___________________________________________________________
Dep, For Wave Files I record in 24 Bit for better quality,
Med Gain @ 125 works well with minimal hiss

Shaggy | November 1, 2007 07:08 PM
____________________________________________________________

martind28lh - using any of the agc/compression settings on the H2 will seriously interfere with the natural dynamics of the music, and once applied to the recordings cannot be undone if you change your mind afterwards. Using M100 should cope with the dynamic range of un-amplified instruments. You can always alter levels and apply compression in your PC afterwards if you feel the need - and "undo" if the result is then not to your liking.

forcnolimit, connecting your H2 to your PC is described in the manual - when you follow the steps set out there, is there some particular part of the instructions you don't understand or does something seem to go wrong?

"Ozpeter: chill on the techie stuff. The h2 is very capable" - eh? I've never said that the H2 is other than very capable, and on the whole my advice to users is to leave the techie stuff alone and use it point-and-shoot for best results.

Thanks Ross for that useful info.

I have another general question. Does anyone have experience of using the H2 with the AGC1 (GENERAL) setting on? For normal recording of acoustic instruments would that be a good bet, rather than adjusting levels manually? Any real disadvantages in using it? For me, the simpler the better.
Cheers

ME, a VERY unsavvy newbie has 2 "roadblocks" with my h2 zoom:
1/cannot figure how to CATAGORIZE my recordings into specified folders
(I may actually figure this one out)
BUT -
2/cannot for the life of me figure how to download this information onto my laptop.
Help is GREATLY appreciated! // forcnolimit@yahoo.com

Ozpeter: chill on the techie stuff. The h2 is very capable

martind...

If you have any wish to post-process your music files then stick with recording in wav format. Mp3 files are compressed and have lost some of the quality you will wish to work with.

Record any music you wish to keep in wav format. Then massage the wav files with Audacity.

When you are ready to save your finished work I would probably save it as a stereo wav file if it's something you've worked hard on. Then archive it away in a nice safe place. Wav files will play on pretty much any cd player out there these days.

If you are putting a lot of files on a CD or MP3 player, then saving them in mp3 format makes since. The big benefit of mp3 is space. You can put hours of mp3 music files onto a single CD but only an hour or so of wav music files. But remember... mp3 files only play on mp3 players.

I hope this helps. I've ordered an H2 and anxiously await it's arrival... a gift for the gurg! Actually... a gift for my daughter who sings opera. The gal can blow the house apart with those lungs. We'll see how the H2 can handle THAT!

Ross

Hi. As a very new user of a Zoom H2 who is quite inexperienced in digital recording I am just looking for some basic advice, if anyone can help. My main use is for recording traditional music - fiddles, guitars, piano etc. All I really want to do is to record in good quality stereo and then adjust or tidy up the recording using Audacity to make private CDs etc. My main question is - should I record using the default WAV format (WAV44.1kHz/16bit)or should I use one of the MP3 settings and if so, which one?
Is it best to burn CDs using WAV files or MP3 files (using Nero)?
If you have any other hints on recording with the H2 and then using Audacity I would appreciate reading them.
Thanks

Having the gain at 125 is russian roulette - it does nothing that you can't do in post production ('cos it's just adding digital gain) and risks digital overload needlessly.

The 24 bit debate will continue but it's considerably beyond the capability of the H2 analog stage's noise performance, as far as I'm concerned.

Dep, For Wave Files I record in 24 Bit for better quality,
Med Gain @ 125 works well with minimal hiss

I just used H4 for an interview with M100 and 44KHz/16. There were 3 speakers and the H4 was about 1m (3') away from them on, situated on a coffee table. It sounded quite good for me with no hiss noticeable.

okay. my h2 will arrive tomorrow, and i'll almost instantly be using it for a radio interview of an old-timey luthier, so it will certainly include some music. i'm figuring that whatever i do, it's bound to be better than the cassette machines (or even the old uher reel-to-reel i have upstairs) we used to use. but i want to double check.

based on what i've read here, and all else being equal, 44.1 and 16-bit, digital gain at 100 (which is apparently neutral) and the medium click position on the real mic pot, no agc or limiter, will produce the best raw recording. am i right so far?

now. there was only a little discussion of the lo-cut filter; what i saw seemed to suggest that it's okay. has this proved true?

anything else?

thanks -- this has been a great discussion and i've learned much from it.

You can use rechargeables with the H2. There's a menu option which lets you choose between Ni-MH and Alkaline. Use high capacity Ni-MH rechargeables and an intelligent fast charger for best results.

hi all.
i would like to ask if it is possible to use rechargable batteries with the zoom H2?

thanx

@Keld: Cubase may be expecting an ASIO driver. You might try Asio4All. I’ve been using it with Ableton Live in Vista.

I have just got zoom H2 and so far its very good. I connect it to my laptop with Windows Vista and it work great as a sound card in my program Cakewalk Sonar.
But in my Cubase SX 2.2 I cant find my H2 sound Card in my VST connections. Whats wrong? Please help me

Keld

Thanks Ozpeter,

Ya, I meant the internal mics, though I have a $50 Audio Technica stereo mic, I have no plan of using them, probably does no better than the built-in ones anyway.

theguitarman, do you mean using external mics or the integrated mics? Most reports of using the external mics straight into the H2 have been disappointing, while most people have reported getting excellent low-noise results with the H2's built in mics, or its line input for that matter.

Can anyone tell me in terms of noise, which is better, the H4, the H2, or the Edirol R09? How about the sensitivity? I mean the total result of the internal mic sensitivity, preamp sensitivity (is there such a thing?), and the preamp gain, or simply stated, which one catches the weaker or quieter sounds better? This is important for me because I intend to make field recordings of nature, like the croaking of frogs.

We just published an article on transferring Zoom H2 surround recordings to DVDs. It draws from material in this discussion.

"Anyone know how to make the volumn bigger when play on computer?"

Normalize the file. I use Audacity for that. That should help a bit. You might try to compress within Audacity or any other program like that. Just save the original file as is in case you don't like how the compressed version sounds. Good luck with that!

Sounds like next time you need to record your source at the next level up !

Hi, just bought H2. I got one problem with it. It record music great and play using H2 sound great also (using the earphone).

But when I play it on computer using Realplayer, the sound so low even I turn the volumn to max.

Anyone know how to make the volumn bigger when play on computer?

Thanks
Jeff

"If will consider inappropriate - please, remove it!!! "

Well, hopefully they will.... relevance to the Zoom H2 is hard to discern! Sigh...

Whether you install the firmware update or not should have no effect at all on transferring recordings to a computer.

thanx. i was thinking of upgrading in order not to face any problems with transform etc,
i am going to be in a remote place where i wont have internet access for a long time and i am a little bit worrying..
you think i ll be totally fine with it?

The update seems to provide only the means to swap left and right when recording, as described in the the pdf which comes with the download. If you don't want that, don't upgrade. (There's a suggestion that the upgrade also improves wind/rewind funcionality but that's not officially documented).

Ah, yes thanks -- it's becoming clear that implementation of this function leaves much to be desired.

I hope Zoom is watching this thread!

forgot to add, I have version 1.1

damn...i forget to use a nick. The previous post is mine restating what I said in a post further down. Btw, that's in PLAY mode.

dxace1,
FF/RW DOES FUNCTION on my H2.

after holding FF/RW for 5 'one second' jumps it makes 'five second' jumps and after holding for 5 'five second' jumps more it makes 'ten second' jumps. clear as mud...but that's how it works. Yeah, it should be more efficient.

ozpeter,
your recording...very cool. (reaper kicks ass)

See http://www.2090.org/zoom/bbs/viewtopic.php?p=96859#96859 for a link to an H2-originated studio music recording.

There's a suggestion elsewhere that the version 1.1 firmware improves FF/RW function.

Would someone who believes that their
FF/RR actually FUNCTIONS in either mp3
or wave mode elaborate.

Even if it works after a few seconds
of a press, it should function more
efficiently than this, as it does when
you are in full STOP mode.

Thanks

LeadSinger,
forget external mics, you won't be disappointed with the H2 internal mics for recording band rehearsals. it's much more than adequate. plug it into whatever you have available.

Ozpeter, well said. (I struggle chronic impulse-gadgetitis.)

Leadsinger - if you were thinking of using the H2 with the existing external mic you use with the MD, I don't think you'd get any better result and possibly worse than you do now. If you use the H2's own mics, the comparison is then between the H2 mics and the current mic you use - the actual recorder will then be neutral in the comparison.

Apart from the sound, you've then got to compare convenience of operation etc, and that could come down to fine details of your 'workflow'.

To be confident on all fronts you'd probably have to try out a friend's one first!

I've been watching...reading carefully, drooling at first, now a bit cooled to the H2. For quartet rehearsal we often record a song and immediately listen for errors, balance, tweeking our sound, etc. Have been using minidisc with playback through a Sony boombox Aux input. It's very portable, but I'm always fine-tuning, so what do you think...the H2 with portable, powered (iPod) speakers? Would you need anything else?

My new H2 arrived yesterday. It's out of the same batch and lot # as the first one I had but has a serial of 017xxx and my first one had a serial of 024xxx so I'm thinking they must not serial them sequentially.

I checked the panning setting first and it was centered, the Player/Listener setting would cause the hot mic to switch from R to L on the display so it was the same mic that had the issue. The new one is right on where it should be with the same settings on my Sandisk UltraII 4Gig SDHC from Costco. I think it must have just been a bad mic or bad tuning on one side at the factory. Either was the new one is working great so far. No you get out and use it!

20000+ I've seen mentioned. Remember that the 3D panning setting can affect playback of all 4tr files, I think. If anyone else has a balance problem I'd check that setting first.

I'm waiting on a replacement unit to arrive since my first one had a problem where the Right mic was always hotter than the left for some reason. I was wondering what the serial numbers are up to so I can judge if I'm getting a new one.
Thanks

we're very happy with the H2. quick record and instant replay of our ideas. enjoy!

FF/RW kinda works like my posts...lol

actually, during playback in mp3 mode after holding FF/RW for 5 one second jumps it makes 5 sec jumps and after holding for 5 five second jumps more it makes 10 second jumps. clear as mud...

I don't use the .wav mode but it probably works the same.

actually, in mp3 mode after holding FF/RW for 5 one second jumps it makes 5 sec jumps and after holding for 5 five second jumps more it makes 10 second jumps. clear as mud...

I don't use the .wav mode but it probably works the same.

On mine, in mp3 mode, the longer you hold down the button the faster it winds (well, up to 10 second jumps) when in play mode. The acceleration could be faster.

No, you cannot FF or RR while in
PLAY mode -- at least on my H2. You
have to be in STOP mode on the file,
then they both work fine.

Even the most basic digital recorders
provide capability to FF and RR while
in PLAY mode.

For journalists this is a critical
point.

Not so much complaints as notes to others to be aware of its inevitable (given the price) limitations - the more you realise what it's really best at, the less one is concerned about what it's not best at.

[B]FF/RW works ok for wav, but not mp3[/B]

huh? we (band) use the H2 as a song writing scratch pad and always record at 192k mp3.

It FF/RW just fine, no problem at all here.

but, it would better if it would FF/RW during play back.

there are a lot of complaints around here about short comings of the H2. C'mon it's about $200USD, what do peeps expect from this thing. It's perfect for our us and sounds great.

the podcasts i've heard recorded with the H2 sound great too.

FF/RW works ok for wav, but not mp3.

The non-pausing implementation is I suspect to do with data security within a simple operating system - you're not adding to / reopening files but simply creating them and closing them permanently. Thinking these days tends to be that pause is something you do in editing later - when acquiring the audio, get everything. I have an 8 track HD recorder that works on similar principles.

FF/RW works, doesn't it?

My firmware proposal would simply be to reset the overload indicators if you change the HML switch or the 0-127 setting. The way they stay lit is silly.

Yes dxacel, all good points, I too agree,...

I think the FF/REV Playback works poorly & can be improved.

Record Pause also important for me, not the BWF file marker.

I also do not use the Limiters / MP3 Conversion, etc..

Wold be nice like you say if you can have control over what menu
items you could flash to the unit thru some external software.

Well, now that my initial joy with the H2 has faded a bit I am able to see a few things that one would hope ZOOM could improve upon.

1. It is just ridiculous not to have the capability to use FF and RR while the file is playing. This should be correctable with a firmware update, no?

2. Similarly it is a bit absurd not to be able to use PAUSE in record mode. This has been the single stand out criticism of people I have shown the H2 to.

3. Another recommendation for ZOOM, although not one I would expect them to go for, would be to provide alternate firmware versions, one for professional journalists and others who have no need for guitar/metronome functions.

Hope Zoom can address these points. Otherwise, this is a great recorder!

http://www.tape.com/resource/impedance.html has some good advice on matching impedance.

Pianist, I think the 1800 ohms is a design compromise between the consumer electrets, which will work properly at that loading, and the 600 ohm prosumer microphones.

Many of those stereo omni electret capsules have quite high inherent noise levels, and are not as suitable for wide dynamics recording as the internal H2 capsules. Its 92 dBA is a really wide dynamic range...

Thanks for your reply Trevor.

That figure of 1800 ohms leaves me a little confused, though it might be a matter of terminology...

My stereo omni mics have a quoted impedance of 2.2k, and my understanding was that one should record from these mics using a "mic in" that has an input impedance several times the impedance of the mics. The 20k quoted in the manual would seem to be okay, the 1800 ohm (1.8k) value you mention is not.

The sensitivity of the mics is -35dB (1V/Pa).

Have I misunderstood something here? Would lower-impedance mics give a better recording?

The mic level seems okay but there is a noticable hiss.

I just received the H2 yesterday and began testing it out. It's very easy to use with an intuitive interface. I had my 6 year old play some piano pieces and then played it back through a tube amp and B&W803 speakers. It sounded great with a decent dynamic range and nice soundstage; during quiet parts you could hear whispers in the background very clearly indicating a low noise, high resolution recording. The piano sound, while not quite live sounding, was well represented by the recording. I used Medium gain, 24 bit wav format. Not a very technical review, but I just wanted to convey that it's a great product and will find multiple uses in our household.

The capacity/time list is at http://www.zoom.co.jp/english/products/h2/sd.html

hi all.
can somebady let me know where can i find info and a list on the capacity of .wav recordings in Zoom H2 and how this change according to the sd card i use?

i mean how many minutes of.wav 16 bit can hold a 2gb card and how many minutes a gb?
i would like to find derailed info for every card.
thank you in advance

Gershon, in answer to your second question, {{Blush..}}.
In answer to your first question, when doing post-prod on a presentation, such as, {{Blush..}}, one of mine, I like to have a lapel mike which I EQ, compress, and add 'ambience' in post, as the main audio. Then I have at least one other set of microphones, on satellite MP3 recorder(s), to pick up audience questions (etc). Finally I stretch the audio tracks as required to synchronize them exactly with the mics in the camcorder(s), sliding the tracks in Vegas until all the audio sources are 'in phase'. At this point you have good clean, listenable audio, in lip-sync with the camcorder, and are not subject to the poor quality of those silly camcorder mics, or to having cables running from the camcorder to external mics.
:)

woa trevor, you are one smart dude. Humbled to be having any sort of conversation with you. This is you, right?
http://trevormarshall.com/

Now the question is when would such a lapel mic be preferable to the internal mics?

The EXT MIC input impedance measures at 1800 ohms. I just double-checked.

The small electrets don't really have an impedance. They are usually spec'ed as an output voltage into a given load. The load is often provided by the resistor feeding the power to the powered input in the recorder.

Gershon gave a link to a type of cheap Chinese lapel mic that I tested as OK with the H2. They sound quite good, on a lapel (which is a fairly demanding application). They have two omnidirectional capsules in them, and, on your lapel, match the M level of the recorder at normal speaking levels.

Trevor, you said the input impedance of the mic input is 1800 ohms. My manual states 20k ohms. Have you made a typo, or is the manual wrong?

Please can you let us know the mic impedance of the "ARCHOS stereo electret lapel microphone" for which you got the good results?

Thanks!

Indeed, that looks identical to one of the lapel mics I tried my H2 with, which was labelled 'Sony' but came out of some random factory in China. Can't guarantee that all those Chinese microphones work the same, even when they look the same, but, for the price, what have you got to lose? I bought 6 of those last year, and discarded one as a little noisy... But even it was OK...

Bass is a little heavy with those positioned on your chest, not unlike the heavy bass of the H2 when up close. With the H2 on medium I was unable to overload the input, but it did overload on H... But your mic may differ - it may be from a different factory :)

Sounds interesting. So you think this mic would work well too?

http://cgi.ebay.com/STEREO-LAPEL-MIC-FOR-MINIDISC-FREE-WORLDWIDE-SHIPPING_W0QQitemZ190161015700QQihZ009QQcategoryZ15056QQcmdZViewItem

Here is what I found about the External MIC input, with my H2 'straight out of the box'.

The input impedance is 1800 ohms. It is intended for low impedance microphones. The input impedance did not change significantly when I switched the MIC Power on or off.

I plugged in an ARCHOS stereo electret lapel microphone (my favorite lapel) and it was moving the VU meter to almost the same levels as the internal microphones. An old Sony stereo lapel mic was the same level as the internal microphones at about 12 inches. The H2 seems to like the high-output condenser microphones.

The ext mic input overloads at 12 mV RMS, and, surprisingly, the top half of the sinusoid clips well before the bottom half. H2 engineers need to trim their analog design a little. Asymmetric clipping is a no-no for professional, or even prosumer, applications.

I advanced the digital gain to 104 so that the ext mic input and the digital indicator bar-graph reached clipping and 0dB simultaneously. The spectrum can be found at URL
http://TrevorMarshall.com/temp/EXTMIC_96_24_0db_104.gif

The dynamic range is excellent, with less sampling artifacts (above 20KHz) than the Line input exhibited.

The trick to getting good performance out of the external microphone input (my Firmware is 1.10) is to recognize the low impedance and make sure you use a high output microphone (my lapel mics were rated at about -35dB re 1V/Pa. The Rode SVM are rated at -44dB re 1V/Pa, probably accounting for their lower signal to noise ratio when used with this input. I hesitate to suggest this, but the external microphone input seemed to be well matched to Karaoke with my AKG MB4000C microphones :)

OK. I am happy at this point. I can use this machine. It is very nice indeed. I will take a look at the innards and the power supply noise when I get some spare time, maybe later this week.

Drawing on my own experience and that of others I've now posted a long piece on "How to get the most from the Zoom H2" at http://www.2090.org/zoom/bbs/viewtopic.php?p=96209#96209 - hope it will be found generally helpful.

OK, my H2 arrived a day early, and I have done the easy testing - the Line Input.

The Line Input impedance is approximately 14K ohms. The inputs saturates at a voltage of about 0.566 V RMS, or -2.7dBu, -2.7dBm, -5dBV

It is interesting that the line input overloads at exactly the same point as when the Digital gain setting is set to 100 and 0dB displays on the VU display. My guess is that line-in goes straight into the AD converter. When I buzz the circuitry I will be able to check this out.

The spectra when my H2 is fed with a 404 Hz sine wave from a function generator (3% distortion, so you can see the harmonics at 808Hz, 1212Hz, and etc) can be found at URLs
http://TrevorMarshall.com/temp/Line_441_16_0dB_100.gif and
http://TrevorMarshall.com/temp/Line_96_24_0db_100.gif

I only have SoundForge to do the FFT, so it is not as pretty as some of the other FFTs scattered around the net, but it will do.

I am surprised how clean the recorded signal is. I will try two-tone and other more complex tests later, after I get rid of the power supply noise.

Trouble with my theory that H = M with 10dB of digital gain is that if that were true, then a sine wave signal that just distorts with input at H and level at 100 should not distort when digital level is reduced to less than 100 - (as it would not distort in the analog domain at the "M" setting) - and it does, clearly. OK, end of that theory, but it still remains true that there's no demonstrable benefit in recording at H setting.

I still can't see the use of recording with a limiter in the digital domain under any circumstances. It cannot possibly do anything that a limiter cannot do in post production using the same bits. And having used it during recording, in the H2, you are stuck with the result for ever.

Meanwhile, if you accept that there's no point in using the digital level control other than at 100 for the reasons I've given (and my tests indicate to me that 100 is the magic figure), and that the problem really is that there is limited control of preamp level (trim) from the three position switch, then what are the consequences?

Say you record something live using the built in mics. You think that it's going to be slightly too loud for the "H" setting, so you use "M" instead. According to the book that drops the level 10dB. Now let's say that ac