Hello Ellen,

the new plug-in architecture for Aperture is potentially exciting, but for a mobile user the fact that each RAW with a localized edit will have a ~20MB companion is way less attractive. I consider this as being an internal round-tripping instead to go to another app.

I hope the commercial plug-ins in preparation will avoid this.

Did you heard about todays announcement from Adobe? They announced today Lightroom2 with localized editing, but done right. All in small instructions. This is the first time I feel they have something much better thought out...
Just have the blues...

Best

Bernt

Hi Ellen:

I appreciate your wonderful articles on Aperture and I too feel that the plug-in architecture is a bonus but, I also must say that round-tripping within Aperture and creating Tiff's for localized editing is counter-productive. I'm very surprised that Apple didn't stick to their guns and hold fast with their non-destructive efforts! If I want to round-trip and create large Tiff or PSD files I have PS3 the mega program.

Steve.

Opening up Aperture for plug ins is good, but I have to agree with Steve and Bernt above. If you have to do an in-house round tripping each time you need to apply a plug in effect to a picture, the HD will soon be full. Is it not possible to apply the non-destructive technic also for plug-ins?

Aldrin

I agree with the above too. I have PS3 if I want to do round trip editing. And with PS3 I can create layer masks, smart filters and objects etc. - all of which are non-destructive. I use PSD as my External File format. To be honest, PS3 is faster too.

I wholeheartedly agree with the above comments. Adobe is going in the right direction on this, and cannot understand why Apple has implemented localized edits as an internal roundtrip that creates a huge tiff file. I might as well use Photoshop to round trip...

I'm also extremely disappointed that the upcoming Noise Ninja plugin will also operate on a Tiff file (I've read that the API can access the RAW data, but maybe this is not the case?). Bibble Pro's implementation uses Noise Ninja in a non-destructive manner, why can't Aperture?

As good as Aperture 2.1 is, I end up really wondering whether I should move to Lightroom since they are sticking with the non-destructive paradigm even on localized edits. I cannot see Apple changing its plugin API now that it's been released to developers.

-paul

At first I thought "wow" what a feature but reading through the comments above I see that there is a huge problem in wasting space in "roundtripping" (I like this verb)
In my opinion (as a non PS2/3 user) I think that this kind of plug-in architecture is made for people like me who'd like to edit "all in one place" seamlessly.
Another thing, that comes up my mind is if apple would have opened aperture to developers to follow the internal "apply the delta settings stored in the db" principle it would be much more complicated to write an plug-in instead of simply using stdin as input (the TIF) and stdout as return (the result) to grep and store images in the aperture-lib/db.

I completely agree that ultimately I'd like to see the Dodge and Burn functionality as an integral part of the Aperture interface. However that doesn't diminish its usefulness as is. You don't need to make targeted/selective/masked adjustments to all your images, nor will you need to use any of the plugins on all your images. So while using the plugin definitely increases storage demands, it is still a huge step towards making Aperture a stand alone program where you won't need to also have Photoshop unless you do some major creative work with composites, etc.

My experience has been that its faster to use the Dodge and Burn plugin than go to Photoshop CS3.There's less time spent opening PS and in the saving process.

Also realize that what Adobe announced today is a beta - a fully and reliably functioning version of Lightroom 2 is likely to be months away. Beta releases are betas because they are full of bugs that need to be ironed out. Apple uses a different philosophy with its releases - rather than tease you with what's coming but not working quite right, it waits until most of the bugs have been removed and then releases the products. Different styles for different companies ...

Ellen

Note that when I said "integral part of the interface," I meant as part of the Adjustment panel that will work nondestructively.

Ellen

Since Apple has added its fab retouch tool to Aperture 2, we know Apple knows how to make non-destructive localised edits within the raw's sidecar file. From a drive space perspective this is much more efficient and fits Aperture's heritage for non-destructive editing.

Perhaps over time the dodge/burn/sharpen/fuzz/etc destructive plug-in gets new bricks of their own within the main adjustment panel.

Really interested in seeing 3-4 major plug-ins and how they use the raw and save their changes.....

"... However that doesn't diminish its usefulness as is."

I disagree. I think it *does* diminish its usefulness. your average user would use this feature 10x more if it were part of the non-destructive adjustment brick.

As a "roundtripping" plugin, I'm pretty sure 90% of A2 users think twice before launching the D&B tool. Apple is definitely saving the user from a trip to Pshop, but it's an added step (some would say unnecessary).

It's obvious that the plugin api is going to bring some much needed functionality to Aperture. For the D&B tool (especially as it relates to LR2's non-destructive version), we're all left with our hands in the air, wondering exactly what functionality does the tool provide that couldn't have been done as a non-destructive adjustment brick.

Maybe this is a topic Joe Schorr could broach in a future episode of the Inside Aperture podcast.

I'd love to hear what Joe would have to say about the potential of future plug-ins making their edits in a non-destructive fashion. I was all excited about Dodge and Burn until I realized how it worked and that it created the extra TIFF. Now if I'm going to bother creating another copy of my photo I might as well use Photoshop CS3 for the adjustments.

If LR really does come out with a method for non-destructive localized edits, that will not bode well for Aperture...