Joe also posted the same message in the comments to Dominique James' (sorry if I misspelled the name) recent post.

Overall the consensus Apple needs to make an announcement on camera support at PMA (as it looks like it's not happening sooner...) and acknowledge that Aperture is alive and 1.6 or what have you is coming (if not 2.0)

ALso I've noticed more than a few people state PMA as the lightroom switching date if nothing happens. Uh oh, Apple! C'mon you can provide RAW support - it's a few tags in a few files, it doesn't seem to be too hard.

Lightroom is about to come with a 2.0 version.
(http://www.scottkelby.com/blog/2008/archives/941)
I really hope that Aperture 2.0 will be quicker and has innovative new features.

Mihalis.

I guess Apple's silence on all things development is so well known by now that if you choose to go with them, you pretty much have to accept being in the dark about updates.

I see why the company falls silent on hardware - so they can get better media coverage when they release the latest iPod, skinny laptop etc and it's immediately available to buy. But for software updates? It seems counter to what's good for their customers. It's not as if being secretive about the latest bug fixes does anything for the profile of Apple, and there certainly isn't a media circus about updates.

I wonder what their support phoneline says when you ring up and ask why your camera won't work with Aperture?

Rumour goes its in in the 10.5.2 developer seed. I'm guessing yur all going to be waiting for that.

Joe is a very nice guys.... But still, why hasn't Apple done it yet? What is their excuse for not doing something that Adobe did long ago? I am sure they have the capacity to do it, but why haven't.

That Apple will release it in their own way when they are ready and good... we all knew that, nothing new in what Joe said.

But like some one else said... it is time for Apple to grow up and start talking to their pro users.

Just listen to all the disgruntled Apple users here and elsewhere!

Now go to the other camp... read what the LR users write.... Apple, can you see a difference?

The Wow and awe strategy of waiting for Job's speech at Mac World may work for consumers but it does not work for pro users than need to make a living, and either Apple is a helper or a stumbling block and need to get out of the way and let those who can do the job do it.

At this moment, Aperture has become a dead weight in my MACPRO and not the workflow solution Apple claimed.

I would speculate that RAW support is lagging because of some new feature in AP that the next update will have. Who knows, maybe this dept. in Apple is just lazy :-P

Furthermore, I'd say that they're being so secretive so that they can try an blow LR away with some massive improvement.

So what do you say the lag is about? Issues with mimicing the camera's image processor firmware in OS X? Maybe it's something we can solve for them if they're just lazy... ;-)

RAW support has nothing to do with Aperture or Leopard features.

We get security updates regularly without any Leopard upgrades, we get itunes, iphoto and others upgrades regularly... we even got Aperture updates... So, why not RAW support.

Even if they can blow LR, it may be to late. If you have 10,000, 20,000 images in LR because Apple didn't gave you RAW support I seriously doubt that you will switch back to Aperture... unless, of course, they found a way to interpret and integrate LR raw corrections into Aperture.

Apple silence only feeds expeculation that in this case is clearly working against them. So, to keep pro uninformed is a very bad for Aperture.

If Adobe is smart, they'll announce cross-upgrade-pricing for Aperture users at the same time they release Lightroom 2.0.

I would posit that, at a minimum, there will be 1Ds Mk III and D3 support by the time of the coin toss in Arizona on Sunday, Feb 3.

To me, Apple's policy of "keep them in the dark" needs to change. People have been asking about updated support for three months for most cameras, longer for others, and Apple has done nothing to calm the nerves of their user base. Now when everyone is starting to jump ship, Joe comes along and says "hold tight, we'll get to you," and expects us to stay loyal? No. If Apple wants my loyalty, commit to something. Drop this policy of "you'll get it when you get it" and tell us something, anything. "We're targeting, PMA" or "10.5.3" or even "Q3 2008". Something to prove to us that Apple is committed to giving us something in a timely manner. Barring that, if Apple hasn't provided updated RAW support in 10.5.2, I'm jumping ship and I, like a lot of the others, won't be coming back. Loyalty is a two-way street. Apple needs to remember that.

Just come across this which may bring a smile to one or two people...

http://www.hardmac.com/news/2008-01-24/#7656

Gee, thats a swell rumor.
I am sure that the new release will fix all the problems of the old release also. Too late, I have moved. But there is still time to save my wife and her pocket camera as a customer.

Joe, Dave, Apple - nice try. It's coming is a bunch of vapor ware. We shouldn't have to wait. It's already too late. Here's my suggestion: Sell Aperture to Adobe, let them roll in the best of it's features, port it to Windows as well. At least we, the photographers, will get what we need, when we need it.

"Joe, Dave, Apple - nice try. It's coming is a bunch of vapor ware. We shouldn't have to wait. It's already too late. Here's my suggestion: Sell Aperture to Adobe, let them roll in the best of it's features, port it to Windows as well. At least we, the photographers, will get what we need, when we need it."

AMEN!!!!!!

"Apple's policy of "keep them in the dark" needs to change."

I so dearly would like to agree with that statement, but I can't. I would love to know what's in store for Aperature!

Project development cycles slip, priorities change, bugs are found. It really is a S.W.A.G. as to when something will be ready for the masses. This is how it is with something you can easily control (like embedded firmware) let alone something like reverse engineering the new RAW file formats for new DSLR's. I run system testing for some laser printers. This takes time. Six months minimum, and there's still defects. It's one thing to have a printer crash and someone's wedding pictures with colors that are impossible to get right.

I'd rather have a crashed printer.

Just something to think about.

The problem is not that Apple won't give us dates, but that they won't even say "Yes, we're working on a new version of Aperture, it will address your concerns, support many new cameras, and it will be awesome." If they would do that, we wouldn't sit here wondering if we should switch to some other app. Lightroom's only real merits come from its use of Camera Raw, but camera support and image quality trumps GUI where photographers are concerned. Every time.

It really is foolish to say nothing. I understand the need for secrecy leading up to a new product launch, but once the cat's out of the bag users are owed the information they need.

One of the problems in which we are dealing with here, is “customer service”.

Modern companies have to be “customer driven” instead of “product driven”. If we read this blogs (as well as the AUPN ones) we will perceive an increasing anger amongst customers and this is very dangerous to any enterprise.

As Mark (avove) says, we don’t need a date, we need an answer to be positively sure that one the most influential companies in the history is listening, and is rather sympathetic to their customers concerns.

This is utterly strange if we consider that Apple has been [supposedly] characterized by their ability to actually transform customer needs in products or product improvements.

So, what happens when you have dissatisfied customers? They will fly immediately with the competitor.

What happens when you have [just] satisfied customers? They’ll stay with you… until they find something better.

So you need top go beyond. You need to have “delighted” customers. These are the customers who are going to stay with you no-matter-why and no-matter-how.

I’m afraid that the latest is not the case today for Apple

Long time I moved to LR, work great. Still prefer Apple way to do things but at the actual state Aperture is not a professionnal app. Pro needs speed, reliabilty and easy learning curve. Anyway, I hope Apple will do something fantastic and I will see if I go back.

Aperture is wonderful. Its only problem is that it belongs to Apple.

This is a company who is incredibly innovative, and that's it. It almost killed itself years ago with the Mac and the Mac OS, creating an airtight system, overpriced and pushing customers and developers away. It lost for good the battle with Microsoft because of that. Today there is a tiny comeback with improved Macs and a splendid Leopard...and yet so small compared to the Wintel world. Apple knows it cannot compete in that world. It was lucky to have broken into another world, that of entertainment with the iPod, small, sensual, beautifully designed. Its success is that it is not a closed system, anyone with Windows or Mac Os can use it and is a true international product line in a market it now dominates. It is a universal product with the Apple magic.

Next came the iPhone. Beautiful, suave, innovative etc. It is selling well in the US where sales of cells with service contracts are part of the market model. Wonderful for Apple, it even got a piece of the provider's margin. Yet the number of non contract iPhone sales is impressive and should alert Apple to what consumers want. It tried to ignore the international market models, thinking that because it is Apple the world would bow and adopt whatever Apple dictates. Not so. Sales in Europe have at best been disappointing, in Germany in particular. Most of all, Apple is ignoring so many other markets that old time Apple aficionados are now getting dangerously upset. With the iPhone, Apple could be the Microsoft of wireless phones. Unfortunately its old demons are back again, believing that the Apple name is worth a sacrifice, a price and even purposely alienating customers. It will once again lose the battle and remain a tiny player. with closed, expensive, niche, regional systems.

This time there is a real danger that the iPod halo on the Mac will reverse itself with the iPhone. We are realizing now that Apple today is turning into an entertainment company and could in time move away from professional markets. Macs will gravitate more to the entertainment market. with music, video, films etc...The photographer's market, for example is not significant for Apple, and the recent deafening silence on the future of Aperture speaks to it. What I have learned is that if you are serious about a particular market go with those that make it their core business. In this case go with Adobe. I fear that Aperture will be lost in the wash.

I need a computer, an OS, and software that will meet my professional needs. Having to wait months for Mr Steve to let D300 users continue to use Aperture is a disgrace. I started shooting with my D300 and put Aperture aside by necessity . I am not sure at all I will ever go back to Aperture. Apple does not care about my current needs, why should I accept a pompous Apple not mentioning ETA, or that I should wait for a possible next OS update. Furthermore, why am I going to continue to be a loyal Apple fan when I cannot get a iPhone in my country in Europe. If I want music I will get an iPod, if I want a computer to run email, go on the Internet, run Office, CS3, Lightroom etc, do I really need a Mac? Especially now that it is clear what Apple is doing.

I have only used Apple computers since the introduction of the Apple II, many years ago. As the CEO of my company in Europe I have imposed the exclusive use of Macs. I have now given up and have let my COO move to Wintel systems. That's how upset I am. On a photo shoot last week I studied closely what fellow photographers were doing on Wintels and I know now I will be just fine without Apple. I will miss emotionally the Macs, but I will be at peace with my needs. And Apple will certainly not miss me.

I don't get it,...What's changed this year that is so different than previous years?

-Apple being coy? Nope they've done that all along, we shouldn't be surprised

-Our needs? Uh well until Apple INVENTED the category, we didn't have unified workflow. We are a lot farther along than we were two years ago. I used to use 5 apps to get the job done

-Adobe? They've been terrific with dialogue with their customers all along, we shouldn't be susprised they blow Apple away in this regard.

Our Expectations? We suddenly want Apple to embrace us entirely as a professional community, more than they do for Audio or Video or Graphics? Oh all the while push development and innovation single handedly. Is that realistic?

Yeah they dragged their heels, the RAW update shoulda came sooner, but I predict the update will be as substantial as 1.0 to 1.3 if not more so, and all the complaining will disappear with jealously from other camps, as Apple raises the bar once again.

Ian-
Couldn't have said it better myself!

:)

"If Adobe is smart, they'll announce cross-upgrade-pricing for Aperture users at the same time they release Lightroom 2.0."

If _Apple_ is smart, they will announce _upgrade_ pricing for _Aperture_ users!

(Apple's general software upgrade policy these days is to force upgrade customers to pay the same price as new users. _ Not a good way to keep customers when there is a strong competitor who has a more enlightened upgrade policy.)